ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Jerry on January 08, 2011, 04:51:13 PM

Title: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 08, 2011, 04:51:13 PM
Hi guys

Who can help me?
Till what year and month is a Mustang called a 64,5?
I saw a convertible that had a few 64,5 features and was build september 64
but is it a 64.5?
Looked through the web without and success.

Thanks Jerry
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Twilight65 on January 08, 2011, 07:35:16 PM
Jerry,
I believe only 64.5 cars were built at Dearborn and San Jose. 65 cars started with a new series of consecutive unit numbers in the VIN. It was 5Fxx250001 for Dearborn cars and 5Rxx125001 for San Jose cars. Anything before those unit numbers would have been considered a 64.5. I think this started in August 1965. Hopefully someone else will chime in to confirm.
Dave
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: 5F09CNot4Sale on January 08, 2011, 08:33:33 PM
To expand on what twilight65 said... Another way to tell except for the K code naturally is a 64.5 will use the 5th digit engine codes U, F and D and starting in 65 mustangs will have T, C or A. If the car is a shell that is how you can tell. (if a shell is a K who cares what year..buy it)  A lot of indicators that people call 64.5 stuff is actually not "true" 64.5 stuff as it carried over into 65 production. My Sept 64 fastback has a lot of what people call "64.5" stuff. Then there are some truly things that were on 64.5's.

Here is a good website that shows some differences of a 64.5 Vs a 65 by one of our members here:

http://www.svs.com/zim/mustang/64faq.html

The vert buit in Sept 64 that you saw is a "True" 65
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 08, 2011, 10:56:01 PM
Engine codes or unit numbers as mentioned are the easiest way.  So many folks refer to their car as a 64 1/2, yet most times they are Fall '64 alternator cars.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 09, 2011, 04:52:48 AM
Ok thanks guys but does a clip on inside door handle
fit on an later style door mechanism? There must be
a groove on that mechanism to hold the handles clip right?
Can it be that a car built in september 65 still has some 64.5
parts on it? Like carryovers???

Thanks again
Jerry
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: J_Speegle on January 09, 2011, 04:59:44 AM
Ford continued to use some of what have become known as early or 64 1/2 parts more than 6 months after they started to build 65's (December 64 to Jan 65)  So yes plenty of the 65 parts are just the same as what are sometimes referred to as 64 1/2 parts incorrectly.

Not sure what your referring to as "carry overs"
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: ChrisV289 on January 09, 2011, 09:13:38 AM
Ok thanks guys but does a clip on inside door handle
fit on an later style door mechanism? There must be
a groove on that mechanism to hold the handles clip right?

Thanks again
Jerry


Are you referring to the earlier door handles held on by the c-clip as opposed to the allen screw?  I don't think those can be interchanged but I've never actually tried...maybe someone else has..
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Road Reptile on January 09, 2011, 09:37:32 AM
Hi Jerry and all on this subject,
The points here are all important,but if you are asking about date or a cut off point,a big clue is the body type....only coupes and convertibles were built with generators and the unique radiator support to vent them.So far we have yet to see any Fastback cars with a generator.As Jeff stated many parts were used well into the 65 calender year so it is not uncommon to see clip on handles and other trim items on later built cars of all body types.In a time frame: March-August 64 would be the window for 64 1/2 if you are able to get a date from the car it will most likely be within this time frame.A visit to the Ford research center a few years ago let me read the radio script for the intro of the new Fastback body type which was released on the air in the first week of September 1964.Hope this answers your question.

         Regards R.R
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: carlite65 on January 09, 2011, 11:00:32 AM
those door handles will not swap directly. you need to change the part behind the door to use the newer style handle.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 09, 2011, 11:29:15 AM
The clip on door handles ran well into '65 production, as late as February/March '65.

While there are major differences in wiring and electrical components, it seems folks only dwell on certain features such as the lipped hood, beveled head light assemblies and heater 'off' position in the middle.  A lot of items that were interchangeable continued way into '65 production.  The list would be interesting to study.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 09, 2011, 01:24:42 PM
Thank you guys very much!
That site wich was mentioned above is also very good.
Too bad that 64.5 owners don´t send the missing pictures
so the guy can complete the site.

Bye Jerry
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Panther on January 09, 2011, 02:37:47 PM
Hey Jerry,

there's a very good site about early mustangs - especially the 64.5 - which also lists the special 64.5 parts:
Klaus Early Mustang Page (http://www.early-mustang.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7)

Greetings from Frankonia ;)
Paul


Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 09, 2011, 03:16:17 PM
HI Paul

Thanks i forgot about that site. It´s got pretty much information.
Welcome on board looks like nobody is safe from the germans.... ;o)

Bye Jerry
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: slim on January 09, 2011, 06:11:09 PM
Is it safe to say D codes are 64 1/2?
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 09, 2011, 06:24:59 PM
Is it safe to say D codes are 64 1/2?

Without a doubt.  The D engine code was never offered on alternator cars.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: slim on January 09, 2011, 06:45:27 PM
I'm lovin this thread! So apparantly no fastbacks were 64-1/2.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 09, 2011, 06:50:22 PM
I'm lovin this thread! So apparantly no fastbacks were 64-1/2.

Dang, you really ought to hang out here more often!
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: J_Speegle on January 09, 2011, 11:49:51 PM
I'm lovin this thread! So apparantly no fastbacks were 64-1/2.

Of course there were protoypes and the likes - but no regular production ones ;) with VINs before the cut off points offered here.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 11, 2011, 03:37:07 PM
Just one more question,...
So every Mustang built after August 17 1964 is considered as a 65 correct?
Or the other way,....every car exactly built till August 17 1964 is a 1964 1/2?
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: carlite65 on January 11, 2011, 03:43:15 PM
64 1/2 is just a hobbyist/enthusiast term. they are all titled as 65's. ford never used the term 64 1/2.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 11, 2011, 04:01:10 PM
64 1/2 is just a hobbyist/enthusiast term. they are all titled as 65's. ford never used the term 64 1/2.

Actually, I've heard that Ford service departments created the term as they found the vast differences in mechanical and electrical components and needed a way to differentiate the term.  I've also found reference to "1/2" models in period Ford documentation.  There were some documents with the term 1965 1/2 models even.

Jerry:  No, the date is not specific, it is a general guideline.  The last 6 digits of the VIN are the truth, no matter what the scheduled build date is.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Jerry on January 11, 2011, 04:03:42 PM
I know but when is the point from where we call it a 65?
When was the point when all these little differences wich
make a "64 1/2" stop and 65 parts where used for production?

Oh heck where did i read this with the numbers????
Any link please?

Jerry
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on January 11, 2011, 04:07:44 PM
I know but when is the point from where we call it a 65?
When was the point when all these little differences wich
make a "64 1/2" stop and 65 parts where used for production?

Jerry

Probably early August '64 was the actual start-up of alternator-car production at San Jose and Dearborn.  As we've mentioned before, many parts, mostly trim, were continued to be used in production.  Some of the parts that are coined as "64.5" can be found on '65 models as late as March of '65.  For instance, the clip on door handles and windshield wiper posts with chrome bases.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: slingslingbinks on March 31, 2011, 01:31:40 PM
I have a F code 64 1/2 with a 65-66 Rad. Support in it. I gotta find a Louver'd Rad. Support for it.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: priceless on October 19, 2013, 08:28:53 AM
I just searched 64.5 start/stop dates here and this thread came up.

I am looking at an early 65 Mustang coupe, 6 cyl. San Jose car. With a VIN of 5R07T132007 The build date on the warranty plate is, 8/21/64. I know that the warranty plate is the "proposed" build date. So, I'm asking, is this Mustang considered a '65?

It has the original paint (with normal wear), very sound undercarriage, slight blistering in the P.S. lower Q-panel. but has several leaks under the tranny and engine. Carpet has been replaced but the seats look original. All in all, an exceptional Mustang. It's Rangoon Red, a pretty nice little Mustang.

I'm wanting to get a general consensus of what you guys think its worth.

Thanks for any help......I'll let you know what his asking price is after I get some prices... :)
 
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: midlife on October 19, 2013, 08:35:12 AM
True San Jose 65 (not 64.5) VINs start at 125000.  You have a very early 65.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: mjd 65 on October 19, 2013, 11:59:45 AM
Actually, I've heard that Ford service departments created the term as they found the vast differences in mechanical and electrical components and needed a way to differentiate the term.  I've also found reference to "1/2" models in period Ford documentation.  There were some documents with the term 1965 1/2 models even.

Jerry:  No, the date is not specific, it is a general guideline.  The last 6 digits of the VIN are the truth, no matter what the scheduled build date is.

I've noticed the reference to 65-1/2 as well in Ford documents.  Below is a quote from the 65 Mustang Illustrated Facts book referring to the GT equipment group being introduced in "1965-1/2."

Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: J_Speegle on October 19, 2013, 07:29:31 PM
Ford used 1/2 in many of the years to indicate something introduced in the spring. Did it in 69 for the Boss 302's in some documents.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: cobraboy on October 20, 2013, 05:06:53 AM
I've noticed the reference to 65-1/2 as well in Ford documents.  Below is a quote from the 65 Mustang Illustrated Facts book referring to the GT equipment group being introduced in "1965-1/2."

I see the book says 21.7 :1 steering ratio for the GT.

Is this fact correct ? I always thought it to be 16:1
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: rocket289k on October 20, 2013, 02:49:26 PM
I see the book says 21.7 :1 steering ratio for the GT.

Is this fact correct ? I always thought it to be 16:1

The GT steering ratio is indeed 16:1.  That book as a typo.

   16:1 Quick Ratio - used on Power steering and all GT's (1965 - 1970)

   19:1 Slow Ratio - used on Manual Steering cars  (1965 - 1970)
 

A good resource for Steering Box codes and ratios is http://www.stangerssite.com/steeringboxtagdecoder.html

Regards,

Ron

Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Toploader on October 20, 2013, 04:14:55 PM
It's common to confuse gear ratio with overall steering ratio. The overall steering ratio for the G.T. would be 21.7.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: cobraboy on October 20, 2013, 05:48:41 PM
OK  I see that if the pitman arm on a box moves through 90 degrees  - lock to lock and it takes 4 turns on a GT box to do this then to move the pitman arm 360 degrees  ( 1 turn ) it would take 16 turns = 16 :1, the gear ratio.

I have only seen the spec of 16:1 given.
Do you know how the overall steering ratio of 21.7 :1 is calculated ?

I am curious thats all   :)

Would it be how many turns on the steering wheel to move a road wheel 360 degrees ( if it could ?)
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: CharlesTurner on October 20, 2013, 09:05:04 PM
Probably best to start a new thread discussing steering box specs... easier to search in the future and allows the best exposure to get input from others.
Title: Re: When is a Mustang a 64,5??
Post by: Toploader on October 21, 2013, 05:27:01 PM
New thread started here http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7307.0 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=7307.0).