ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: Bossbill on December 03, 2020, 06:54:55 PM
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Does anyone have a picture of the factory dash speaker, front and back?
I'm interested in the non-A/C version, but an A/C version would be interesting too.
Edit -- change title by removing "pic" to generalize the topic.
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Bill : You didn't note what condition, so I have attached pictures of the original from my 67, non-A/C Convertible, just as I pulled it out a couple of years ago.
I did not see anything in the 1967 only MPC, or in the Electrical Assembly Manual that notes that there is a difference between with or without A/C. Where did you see that ?
Bob
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Yet another urban myth squashed.
I didn't see it -- just heard it a number of times. it may have come from the proximity of the one-piece A/C-only defroster duct to the speaker. It crosses right under it. The separate ducts on the heat-only system offer a lot more room.
I do now see the MPC lists only one replacement dash speaker -- the C7ZZ-18808-D.
Thanks for the pics, Bob.
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Yet another urban myth squashed.
I didn't see it -- just heard it a number of times. it may have come from the proximity of the one-piece A/C-only defroster duct to the speaker. It crosses right under it. The separate ducts on the heat-only system offer a lot more room.
I do now see the MPC lists only one replacement dash speaker -- the C7ZZ-18808-D.
Thanks for the pics, Bob.
Not so fast buddy!
Service parts and Radio Kits would more than likely fit BOTH cars WITH factory AC as well as those without.
Here we have a FACTORY A/C version (for the records).
A much smaller magnet to clear the defroster duct was REQUIRED for the AC cars.
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Bill : You didn't note what condition, so I have attached pictures of the original from my 67, non-A/C Convertible, just as I pulled it out a couple of years ago.
I did not see anything in the 1967 only MPC, or in the Electrical Assembly Manual that notes that there is a difference between with or without A/C. Where did you see that ?
Bob
Did you by chance check the Assembly Manual's legend in the section for installation of the Select-Aire system to see if the speaker was listed [or only looked at the radio installation page(s)]?
Factory AC systems were a partially assembled "kit" that arrived to the Assemlyline PRECHARGED with hoses and freon pre-filled (evidenced with the quick-disconnect lines at the condenser as well as the screw-in valves at the compressor connections that "shut off" when fully turned).
I mentioned the freon and the "kit" aspect for a couple of reasons unrelated to the speaker itself but we'll tie it together momentarily.
It stands to reason that the speaker would be included WITHIN the assemblyline AC kit because you simply CANNOT ADD IT IN without dropping the defroster duct later. No dealership new car prep worker would be willing to do this after the fact. I'll go one step further...my assumption is that all 1967 AC cars got the AC type speaker installed on the assemblyline.
I also believe the 67-only MPC listing with a C7ZZ-18808-D part number, is that of the AC type speaker that will fit both models WITH factory Select-Aire, as well as all other models.
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Richard : What you are saying makes sense. However, yes I had checked the legends on the 1967 Radio Installation in the Assembly Manual, and saw nothing about "with A/C. I went back and checked the Select-Aire Installation, and again saw nothing. I also checked the 1960-68 MPC, the 1965-72 MPC, and the OSI books from 1967-1969 ; again nothing. Even the AM Radio Kits are shown with no referencve to A/C or non- A/C. Is it possible that the speaker I pictured could have worked on an A/C car ? I know that a similar type speaker to the one you pictured (with the larger, low profile magnet), when supplied with the Rear Speaker Kits, was noted as "Deluxe Speaker".
I haven't checked my TSB's yet, or all of my 67 a/C info yet, but I guess that's my "next stop".
Bob
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I would be curious to see the contents of a 67 Mustang AM Radio kit.
I would also like to see what a 67 Shelby would have in place, should the factory NOT be the place the radio was originally installed (for Bill's intent and purposes).
Maybe we have only a Supplier difference here?
Closer look at the engineering number attached. This "round magnet" one ends in a "C", I looked at it again in person too.
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In order to restore soft dashes, I hacked the entire metal dash out of my parts car in order to install it on my engine stand. I also have a 67 A/C defroster duct. I'll measure the minimum clearance required and we can compare that to the heights of the various speakers.
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Richard : If you look closely at the picture of mine that I Posted, you'll see that it also ends in a "C". It is more evident on the actual speaker, as part of the top of the "C" is missing since it was stamped too close to the rounded edge.
I know that John D has parted a lot of 67's with Factory A/C, maybe he can chime in and note what he has seen ?
Also, remember that mine is a Dearborn. Although, I believe that John sent me a picture of his original after he had it reconed, and IIRC, it was identical to mine.
Bob
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I believe this is the correct orientation between the w/s duct and diverter.
There does not appear to be a height restriction on the speaker. Lots of room.
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I was unaware of differences so did not save any speakers from parted out AC cars. But I’m looking just in case.
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Bill : Good evidence, and good shot. I think that should say that height was not an issue.
Thanks for Posting that.
Bob
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So is the magnet difference just a manufacturing design change or more than one supplier rather than AC vs no AC?
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So is the magnet difference just a manufacturing design change or more than one supplier rather than AC vs no AC?
It is beginning to look that way.
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Here's a quick pic of my speaker, it's from a 68 coupe Dec 67 build, with AC. Still the C7ZA-18808-C part number.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/1503-051220042202.jpeg)
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I went through my collection from mostly non AC cars and all I had were the low profile round style.
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Any comments on whether this C9 speaker mesh is correct for 67?
I'm having a cone restored soon and wonder if I need to request the mesh.
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I went through my collection from mostly non AC cars and all I had were the low profile round style.
Marty : Any idea of what Plant (s) they are from, or Build Dates ?
Bob
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Any comments on whether this C9 speaker mesh is correct for 67?
I'm having a cone restored soon and wonder if I need to request the mesh.
Bill : What type magnet does that C9 Speaker have ?
Also, my original Dash Speaker does not show any evidence of having the scrim cloth. However, the speakers with my C5AZ, and C7AZ NOS Rear Speaker Kits, as well as the two NOS C6ZZ Door Speakers all have the scrim cloth. Possibly only the Service Part Speakers had it, and not the Factory ones ?
Bob
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The 67 dash speakers that I have pulled out of cars didn't have the covering for what ever reason.
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I have not seen the mesh either.
I know one of mine was out of the 68 GT350 12-02-67 Metuchen and one was from our 68 HCS 06-17-68 San Jose. The others are a mix of 67-68 parts cars no plants or build dates.
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Bill : What type magnet does that C9 Speaker have ?
Also, my original Dash Speaker does not show any evidence of having the scrim cloth. However, the speakers with my C5AZ, and C7AZ NOS Rear Speaker Kits, as well as the two NOS C6ZZ Door Speakers all have the scrim cloth. Possibly only the Service Part Speakers had it, and not the Factory ones ?
Bob
It has the round flat magnet. MPC calls it up as the correct service part for 67/68. I've been watching it on ebay for months waiting for the price to drop...
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Tim : With a C9AZ Part Number, and the D0DA Identification Number printed on the Speaker magnet itself, this can hardly be the "correct" Speaker. You are obviously looking at the 1965-72 MPC, which was printed in 1975. By 1975, many of the "correct" 1967 parts had been replaced by newer parts which "will work", but are not really the "correct" parts. This is just another example of why not to use the 1965-72 MPC for 1968 and earlier Mustangs. If you are looking for "correct parts" for your 67, I would suggest in investing in the 1960-68 MPC. Even in it, there are some parts that have previously been replaced by newer parts, but it is a lot more accurate for "correct parts" as it was printed in 1967 and 1968. In this case, the "correct" original speaker was Part Number C7AZ- 18808-C, and the Identification Number was C7ZA-18808-C.
That being said, and getting back to the "magnet question" (low profile round versus higher rectangular housed), the C9 speaker, as well as the two 68 documented speaker that Marty noted, might make one think that the change to the round, low profile magnet may have been one of the many later changes made in 1967. However, it does not explain the one Richard Posted of his early 67 with the round magnet ; unless the original rectangular one had been replaced before he got the car, or if it was just a Supplier variation. Although, John's 67, which IIRC was built after Richards, and both at San Jose, had its original speaker with the rectangular housed magnet.
Just my thoughts, but at this point, we don't really have anything different.
Bob
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Thanks for clearing up the mesh issue!
Any guesses on date coding format?
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I will say, the speaker frame for 67 is an odd color.
The best color match I have is to "Matte Bronze" as used on Bronze window frames.
There is a company that sells a really good match as they are the original vendor of the frame, but the can is over $30 incl ship. There are literally a dozen different bronzes as made by this company.
I color matched it using a camera color match process and burnished it in since I was only trying to hide some spot colors that had degraded.
I also re-created the text/Ford logo on the magnet and have a stamp coming.
But first, off to be re-coned!
Please note that I'm not out to make a perfect speaker. Even the NOS speakers have degraded in some areas. But I do want it to look "really good."
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While viewing another thread I see that I may not have put pictures into this thread. There may be some in my build thread, but they belong here.
Pic 1: Old faded rear
Pic 2: New cone
Pic 3: Refurbed back
Pic4: With stamp