ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Misc Items => Topic started by: J_Speegle on December 28, 2020, 07:52:16 PM
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Going to start a discussion and collection thread concerning the familiar up-right style solenoids used on the majority of Ford gas vehicles 1965-1973.
Have been working on an off on an article for the Library so any additional findings will be shared by all. Thought I would start out describing the exterior features that I've been focusing on. Some of the descriptive words used to describe the features are of my making just so I can sort and compare different versions
During the time period identified in the title one difference is the electrical lugs used to attach the battery and starter cables primarily. Three different things I've identified are:
- Length. Approx 3/4" or 7/8" in length from the solenoid base not the end of the retaining nut
- Threads. Fine or course
- Lug or shaft end. Tapered or squared
Below is an example - Long squared on the left and short tapered on the right
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-281220180126.jpeg)
Another difference is the upper rivet that attached the main body to the steel mounting bracket
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-281220180146.jpeg)
Right now I've narrowed the features down to nine in total. Details are oriented as if your looking head on as mounted and viewing it from the drivers side of the engine compartment and in the picture below. If your example does not have a certain feature just post "none"
1- Engineering number
2- Marking - Right side of mounting bracket - FoMoCo in an oval or rectangle or Large or small AUTOLITE
3- Makers make - Left side of mounting bracket.
4- Rivet style
5- Cable lugs/shafts - Course or fine. or Long or short
6- Cable lug/shaft nuts - Square with start washers or Shouldered nuts with no washer
7- Small lug/shaft nuts - Square with start washers or Shouldered nuts with no washer
8- Vent - On bottom of the solenoid
9- Date stamp - On bottom of solenoid
If you know the car the solenoid originally came on the cars VIN or shortened vin would help or on later cars the real build date and factory.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-281220230636.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/14/6-281220184923.jpeg)
Hope some of you have a pile of these that you can find time to go through and participate
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PM.
On top of all the other 67 changes there are 3 different solenoids? Jeeeeez.
I do believe you mean star washers for 6 & 7.
I have the original one from my car and a spare.
Original first:
1- C7AF-11450-A1 (lightly stamped)
2- Large AUTOLITE
3- RBM.
4- Simple
5- Course/short
6- Shouldered nuts with no washer
7- Shouldered nuts with no washer
8- Vent - On bottom of the solenoid with felt
9- 7AD (for signature 67 car)
Spare -- vin unknown
1. C7AF-11450-A1 (heavily stamped)
2- Small AUTOLITE
3- RBM
4- Simple
5- Course/short
6- Square with star washers
7- Square with star washers
8- Vent - On bottom of the solenoid with felt
9- 6GC (font is smaller than one above)
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This is pretty much the same as yours in the top right pic with a year later date.
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Here are the two AUTOLITE sizes.
Last pic edited so you can make out the AUTOLITE script easier.
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I can't believe in your first picture that the differences in main bolt lengths are not reflected in a part number difference. That goes against all of what I know of Ford part numbering system. Either that, or the length of bolts were left up to the manufacturer within certain limits of tolerance.
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I can't believe in your first picture that the differences in main bolt lengths are not reflected in a part number difference. That goes against all of what I know of Ford part numbering system. Either that, or the length of bolts were left up to the manufacturer within certain limits of tolerance.
Can't tell why some things happen. We see this more often in service replacement parts where for some reason a specification was not important (apparently) or was not included in the bid process. Agree the difference is interesting and why (if intentional) it was changed. Somethings are just the way it was
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I can't believe in your first picture that the differences in main bolt lengths are not reflected in a part number difference. That goes against all of what I know of Ford part numbering system. Either that, or the length of bolts were left up to the manufacturer within certain limits of tolerance.
Can't tell why some things happen. We see this more often in service replacement parts where for some reason a specification was not important (apparently) or was not included in the bid process. Agree the difference is interesting and why (if intentional) it was changed. Somethings are just the way it was
For me the stamping on the right had side (engineering, maker and AUTOLITE) were all stamped lighter and appear slightly smaller. Since these are all consistent it might lead one to think they were all stamped at the same time. Would make for an oddly shaped gang stamp
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Are you sticking with 67 in this post OR all years ?
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Are you sticking with 67 in this post OR all years ?
Only had one response with data so far so I would not consider this a 67 only thread. It is very likely that we will see more C7AF versions than anything else since it's application covered from 1966 until Ford changed to the "D2" Motorcraft version, so most of the classic years.
I'd invite examples from before that time period though they are going to be difficult to sort since they don't have the dates stamped on them. Only anticipated difference I can for see is the FoMoCo in the oval or rectangle but lets see where this leads as I'll be included those earlier versions also in the final article.
We can always break out different versions if the number of responses makes the discussion difficult to follow.
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Original 8DA dated solenoid from a Dearborn Mustang built April 24, 1968
1- Engineering number: C7AF-11450-A1
2- Marking: Large AUTOLITE
3- Makers make: RBM
4- Rivet style: Simple
5- Cable lugs/shafts: Coarse / Long
6- Cable lug/shaft nuts: Shouldered nuts with no washer
7- Small lug/shaft nuts: Shouldered nuts with no washer
8- Vented: Yes
9- Date stamp: 8DA
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If we are doing the earlier versions, here is one I have:
1- 2701966 Black
2- FoMoCo in a rectangle
3- RBM
4- Simple
5- Cable lugs/shafts - fine/short on battery side; fine long on starter side
6- Cable lug/shaft nuts - Square with star washers
7- Small lug/shaft nuts - Square with star washer
8- Vent - None
9- Date stamp - None
I have no vin info, but find it interesting that there is no date or vent. Maybe a discussion about that?
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I have no vin info, but find it interesting that there is no date or vent. Maybe a discussion about that?
Was aware of the lack of vent and date on the bottom plate. The lack of date is mentioned in the Date Decoding article first published a few years back and is shown in one of my responses to the thread below. Reply #4
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=23926.msg149100#msg149100 (http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=23926.msg149100#msg149100)
Lack of stamped date on these early units will make identifying when changes too place more difficult and reliant on the car's VIN the unit originally was installed on. Good thing is that, at this point, there are only a few versions used on early Mustangs and Shelby's
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Were the original solenoids a glossy finish or more of a satin finish? New ones appear glossy.
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Depended on how much "fibers" were in the mix and how new the mold was IMHO. Would expect that they could become duller over time. The reproductions are made of a different compound that might be contributing to a different look
Going to merge this thread with the major thread on the subject. It will provide some original examples for you to compare to. Found using the search feature using "solenoid" as the search word.
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I'll take pics of my original one when I'm at the shop again. Was the black material made out of Phenolic plastic, like the stuff the old ash trays were made out of?
Dave
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I'll take pics of my original one when I'm at the shop again. Was the black material made out of Phenolic plastic, like the stuff the old ash trays were made out of?
Dave
Phenolic material is not black so that's a no.
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Here is Rodney from Oklahoma's solenoid I just went to see this week. It's a 69 Mustang R code from San Jose. October 68 build.
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Here is Rodney from Oklahoma's solenoid I just went to see this week. It's a 69 Mustang R code from San Jose. October 68 build.
You didn't happen to check for a date on it did you?
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I will ask Rodney to look at the date of it.
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Here is a pic of the date on Rodneys solenoid. What is that date? I also notice it has the short lugs. Is it possible that the longer lugs are for the boss 9's that had the large cable with the battery in the trunk?
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Here is a pic of the date on Rodneys solenoid. What is that date?
Appears to be 6GB which should decode to July 1966 second week
I also notice it has the short lugs. Is it possible that the longer lugs are for the boss 9's that had the large cable with the battery in the trunk?
Not related to Boss 429 applications Most often you will find those with the flat version of the solenoid originally
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Thanks Jeff!