ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: kev on February 19, 2021, 09:14:02 AM

Title: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - Long Plastic Version - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: kev on February 19, 2021, 09:14:02 AM
I have a quick question for the experts here.    I found this wire retainer on my 68 390GT fastback, San Jose, Jan 68.   At first I though it was an aftermarket part until I just recently saw this thread on vmf:

https://www.vintage-mustang.com/threads/what-is-this-called-where-to-find-fuel-tank-area.1187555/

Thoughts on whether or not this is indeed OEM?


(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06006-jpg.197070/full)

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06027-jpg.197071/full)


Thanks in advance,

Kevin

Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: kev on February 19, 2021, 09:28:20 AM
Adding some more photos of it

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06007-jpg.197072/full)

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06008-jpg.197073/full)

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06009-jpg.197074/full)

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06028-jpg.197077/full)

(https://www.hotrodders.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/dsc06029-jpg.197078/full)
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: ruppstang on February 19, 2021, 09:40:56 AM
It is most defiantly OEM. We have a 68 J code GT HCS San Jose assembly plant that has one of them. I also have seen them on other cars. They were not always used and I am not sure that all plants used them. I am guessing that it was cars that had dual exhaust that may have received them. This might be a good subject to do a investigative survey on.   
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: kev on February 19, 2021, 09:57:57 AM
Thanks!   This car did have dual exhaust being that it is a GT.   
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: 67gta289 on February 19, 2021, 10:28:50 AM
The assembly manual shows three individual C7AB-14A163-C retainers.  Neither the MPC illustration nor text documents shed any light to the part shown in this thread.  Generically speaking though the 14A163 basic part number is the most likely candidate - "retainer - wiring harness"
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Coralsnake on February 19, 2021, 11:54:03 AM
I dont believe dual exhaust is the determining factor. More likely time and plant specific.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: preaction on February 19, 2021, 12:08:47 PM
I have found remnants of one on a 68 Dearborn built car. I believe there was another thread about this.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 19, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Every '68 Cougar has that part regardless of plant or period of time. I worked on a '67 Mustang last year that had two metal clips supporting the fuel sender wire, not sure if that was a Mustang thing or not.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: carlite65 on February 19, 2021, 01:02:32 PM
somebody needs to straighten those guys out over on VMF. their responses are ridiculous.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Bob Gaines on February 19, 2021, 01:31:51 PM
Every '68 Cougar has that part regardless of plant or period of time. I worked on a '67 Mustang last year that had two metal clips supporting the fuel sender wire, not sure if that was a Mustang thing or not.
Mustangs more typically use the metal clips 67/68 but I find the long pinch clip from time to time . I have not seen a pattern to help me understand the usage of the long pinch clip on a Mustang .
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Coralsnake on February 19, 2021, 01:43:24 PM
Quote
somebody needs to straighten those guys out over on VMF. their responses are ridiculous
.

A lot of people noticed that a long time ago. Its not a good place to get accurate information. If you want to belong to a community and share your opinion, its just fine.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Bob Gaines on February 19, 2021, 03:12:12 PM
somebody needs to straighten those guys out over on VMF. their responses are ridiculous.
That sounds like a job for SUPER Coralsnake . :D
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: jwc66k on February 19, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
C7ZB-14A088-A, Shield (ref 67 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual, AM0018 PG30) no attaching hardware, not shown on 68 which uses 3 ea C7AB-14A163-C (ref 68 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual, AM0023 PG32) possibly replaced by C7AZ-14A163-C as a service replacement, but the 68 fuel level sender wire application is not listed under 14A163. (Ref 75 Ford Car Parts, aka MPC, Text Section 140 pg 9-11. 14A088 is not listed in the text at all.) The top entry for 14A163 says "improvise". (Look in the library for sources as the retainer is used in other Fords, including 69-70 Shelby).
We used 3M 08008 Black Weatherstrip Adhesive to repair the retainer in a 67 San Jose, 5/67, Fastback.
Jim
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: ruppstang on February 19, 2021, 05:04:32 PM
Every '68 Cougar has that part regardless of plant or period of time. I worked on a '67 Mustang last year that had two metal clips supporting the fuel sender wire, not sure if that was a Mustang thing or not.

That is interesting, that may be the answer it is a Cougar part that found it's way on some Mustangs by error or the lack of the usual clips. The car I mentioned above that has the sleeve also has sound deadener on the tunnel. That was not done on Mustangs but was on Cougars. 
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Coralsnake on February 19, 2021, 05:57:26 PM
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I dont think that site is repairable.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 19, 2021, 06:41:49 PM
Makes no sense as to why - the Mustang and Cougar use the identical same fuel tank, sending units, etc.


That is interesting, that may be the answer it is a Cougar part that found it's way on some Mustangs by error or the lack of the usual clips. The car I mentioned above that has the sleeve also has sound deadener on the tunnel. That was not done on Mustangs but was on Cougars.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: ruppstang on February 19, 2021, 07:42:56 PM
Makes no sense as to why - the Mustang and Cougar use the identical same fuel tank, sending units, etc.

Is the plastic sleeve called out in the Cougar assembly manual?
You are correct it makes no sense but there have been a lot of those kind of thing done on our cars. Like changing the hole 67 dash stamping the make the 68 ashtray 1/4 in smaller.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: J_Speegle on February 19, 2021, 09:25:03 PM
It is most defiantly OEM...........

+1 Have found my share on unrestored cars and on yard cars. Never did a survey or comparison of them. Plenty of other details have been asked for in the past. Guess we could do a thread asking for the regular car details and findings. Guess its worth to do a start and see where it goes. Likely would need one for each plant and it would be interesting if they showed up in plants (NJ) that didn't build Cougars
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: J_Speegle on February 20, 2021, 01:36:29 AM
To add to the discussion and ask a couple of questions after starting to look at pictures. For those well versed in 68's as well as others

1- Did that lip that forms the front edge of the gas tank opening (rear lip of the mid floor section) have holes prepunched/drilled in that lip on the passenger side
2- For the Cougar guys - same question. Can't remember if that body panel is different from Mustangs
3- Don't think it may be connected to type of exhaust since Cougars had both single and duals. Since we're comparing them as part of the exercise


Added a line to see if examples we find had the convenience package. Just in case but I don't hold out much hope be needs to be included this early in the search  IMHO

Established separate threads we'll see where this leads
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 20, 2021, 01:18:26 PM
Since both Mustangs and Cougars came down the same assembly line intermixed at San Jose and Dearborn in 68 and 69 model years it's not too surprising that humans would make errors.


That is interesting, that may be the answer it is a Cougar part that found it's way on some Mustangs by error or the lack of the usual clips. The car I mentioned above that has the sleeve also has sound deadener on the tunnel. That was not done on Mustangs but was on Cougars.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: jwc66k on February 20, 2021, 03:13:33 PM
somebody needs to straighten those guys out over on VMF. their responses are ridiculous.
I "lurk" and "read" the Q's and A's for comic relief. I miss Carson and Rickles.
Jim
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: preaction on February 20, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Is the plastic sleeve called out in the Cougar assembly manual?
You are correct it makes no sense but there have been a lot of those kind of thing done on our cars. Like changing the hole 67 dash stamping the make the 68 ashtray 1/4 in smaller.
It is called out in the Cougar electrical assembly manual C7ZB-14A088-A a C7ZB and not a C7WY part.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: jwc66k on February 20, 2021, 06:23:29 PM
It is called out in the Cougar electrical assembly manual C7ZB-14A088-A a C7ZB and not a C7WY part.
In part number prefix "C7WY", the "Y" indicates a Mercury Division service controlled part, the same as a "Z" in that position indicates a Ford Division service controlled part.
Jim
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: J_Speegle on February 20, 2021, 06:49:20 PM
Since both Mustangs and Cougars came down the same assembly line intermixed at San Jose and Dearborn in 68 and 69 model years it's not too surprising that humans would make errors.

Agreed just like the washer bottles with the Mercury head we see from time to time. Surveys will likely support this if so with random findings with no connections and no findings at NJ

Has anyone had a chance to look to see if my earlier question about the holes being present in the lip was a standard panel feature in all cars?  Trying to determine of the holes were designed into the part in anticipation for the use of the long channel version or something else as part of the investigation
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 20, 2021, 07:32:08 PM
No, it doesn't. The third and fourth character designates which entity paid for the engineering. Once the part is designed and made it can go to any product in any division. The Cougar is covered in parts designed for several different Ford divisions including Mustang, Fairlane, and full sized Ford / Mercury. As is the case with Mustang.

In part number prefix "C7WY", the "Y" indicates a Mercury Division service controlled part, the same as a "Z" in that position indicates a Ford Division service controlled part.
Jim
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: Coralsnake on February 20, 2021, 08:27:22 PM
I have seen it on 68 Shelbys, no Cougars in NJ in 1968
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: 67gta289 on February 20, 2021, 08:49:06 PM
No, it doesn't. The third and fourth character designates which entity paid for the engineering. Once the part is designed and made it can go to any product in any division. The Cougar is covered in parts designed for several different Ford divisions including Mustang, Fairlane, and full sized Ford / Mercury. As is the case with Mustang.

I'm with Jim on this one.  For the engineering part number 4 character prefix, the first two are decade/year, the third is the vehicle line that the part was engineered for (there is an accounting aspect to this as you infer), and the fourth character represents the engineering division (which also is used in accounting/budgeting).   The service part number usurps the fourth character and replaces it with a Y (Mercury) or Z (Ford).  There are always exceptions but this is the prevalent approach.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: ruppstang on February 21, 2021, 10:12:27 AM
Over the years I have parted and restored over 60 67-68 Mustangs, the only one that I have had that had the plastic sleeve was a 68 GT J code. The few I have seen on judged cars were on S and R code cars. I am not sure if there is any pattern but most of the cars I parted were T and C codes and no sleeves were found on them. The original poster on this thread has a S code.  What was the base engine on the 68 Cougar and did those get the sleeve?
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 21, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
Interesting thought - I will have to look at the MPC to see if it says anything about engine size. I've generally only owned W code (three), R code (two), S code (many), or X code (several) Cougars and work on mostly R code or S code Shelby GT500 / GT500KR's so you may be on to something. I last had a small block Cougar in 1989, the last small block 196 8Mustang I owned was maybe 1977. I owned a couple T code 1965 Mustangs long ago but don't recall anything about the fuel tanks or if I ever looked at the wiring.

Over the years I have parted and restored over 60 67-68 Mustangs, the only one that I have had that had the plastic sleeve was a 68 GT J code. The few I have seen on judged cars were on S and R code cars. I am not sure if there is any pattern but most of the cars I parted were T and C codes and no sleeves were found on them. The original poster on this thread has a S code.  What was the base engine on the 68 Cougar and did those get the sleeve?
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: RoyceP on February 21, 2021, 11:25:09 AM
Not seeing that part number in my April 1969 MPC so it apparently was not available as a service part, perhaps because they were made very well and no one could envision selling one. It also does not appear in the illustration book.


It is called out in the Cougar electrical assembly manual C7ZB-14A088-A a C7ZB and not a C7WY part.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: ruppstang on February 21, 2021, 12:44:09 PM
I have an idea that the sleeve may have been used to protect the wire from heat. I found no part numbers or mark on the one that I restored.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: preaction on February 21, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Over the years I have parted and restored over 60 67-68 Mustangs, the only one that I have had that had the plastic sleeve was a 68 GT J code. The few I have seen on judged cars were on S and R code cars. I am not sure if there is any pattern but most of the cars I parted were T and C codes and no sleeves were found on them. The original poster on this thread has a S code.  What was the base engine on the 68 Cougar and did those get the sleeve?
No first generation cougar ever came with a straight 6 so for each year the smallest V8 was standard.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: J_Speegle on February 21, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
............. The original poster on this thread has a S code.  What was the base engine on the 68 Cougar and did those get the sleeve?

Base would have been a C code if I recall correctly. Don't have many undercarriages shots of 68 Cougars to offer finding from

The fact that they show up on 68 NJ built Shelbys and in turn possibly Mustangs seems to suggest this is likely not a mistake of putting Cougar parts on a Mustang in those plants that built both if the NJ observations came from unrestored cars
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: midlife on February 21, 2021, 09:37:23 PM
Any chance this item may be due to dual exhaust?  In 1970, there were variants of fuel line wires due to the presence of single or dual exhaust.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: J_Speegle on February 21, 2021, 10:44:04 PM
Any chance this item may be due to dual exhaust?  In 1970, there were variants of fuel line wires due to the presence of single or dual exhaust.

Chance? Yes but maybe not all dual exhaust cars sine we have allot of dual exhaust examples with the typical rubber coated clips. Though that style may have been used for that application for a specific period of time. Have to remember that using the sleeve style required additional effort and work for one or more workers 

Hopefully the survey will help narrow down the possibilities as it already has done eliminating it as a Cougar only or workers commonly installing the wrong one on the wrong car model

As for the holes I asked about above. Have come to the conclusion that no the holes in the passenger side lip are not a prestamped feature so I can used those to count those cars with them in the long plastic strip/sleeve category in my searches 
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: VXH on January 01, 2024, 12:31:34 AM
I found one of these on my 68 GT J code this weekend. It is a Dec 1967 Dearborn car.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: bullitt68 on February 26, 2024, 01:17:36 AM
My car '68 Mustang GT fastback had it. San Jose May '68. Trying to fond a replacement as mine is not reusable. To my knowledge they are not reproduced.
Title: Re: Fuel Tank Wire Retainer - Long Plastic Version - 68 fastback 390GT San Jose
Post by: DTruitt on February 09, 2025, 06:20:00 PM
I found the sleeve on a 1968 J-Code GT built on May 13th in Dearborn.  I have also documented it on a mid December 1967 Dearborn built Cobra Jet.

Danny