ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Twilight65 on February 20, 2011, 11:29:09 AM
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Well it's finally started to warm up around here and I wanted to try out my oil filter stamp that I had made. Turned out pretty decent. I know the stamp is upside down and on the wrong type filter. But now all I"ll have to do is get the correct oil filter, paint and stamp. Moving my car one more step towards that assembly line look.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/DavesStamp-1.jpg)
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Looks great :)
Couple of questions: What kind of paint/ink did you use? And, what technique did you use to apply the ink to get to so even? I've been experimenting with my coil stamp and I can't get it to look right.
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Hey Gary, I tried the first time with spraying yellow spray paint on paper and stamping into it which I've done in the past with a lot of success. This time with it being so large I just held the stamp and sprayed the yellow paint onto the stamp, just two or three quick shots, then rolled it around the oil filter. Believe it or not that was just my second try.
Dave
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Cool! Good Job. Did all the plants use filters with this marking in 65 and 66?
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Dave- Thanks for that,: I'll have another go at the coil! Gary
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for coils that i do i purchased a silver ink pad. it goes on good.
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I saw a diamond shaped stamp, on the top of a filter like the one you are making too.
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for coils that i do i purchased a silver ink pad. it goes on good.
I tried 4 different kinds of stamp pads. They don't dry! 3 weeks later the ink wipes right off!
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Well it's finally started to warm up around here and I wanted to try out my oil filter stamp that I had made. Turned out pretty decent. I know the stamp is upside down and on the wrong type filter. But now all I"ll have to do is get the correct oil filter, paint and stamp. Moving my car one more step towards that assembly line look.
Dave
Great job stamping that, Dave. That really looks good.
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Looks good - keep it up
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OneShot Lettering Enamel is what you should use if you want it to last!!!!!! It has lead in it.
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Well it's finally started to warm up around here and I wanted to try out my oil filter stamp that I had made. Turned out pretty decent. I know the stamp is upside down and on the wrong type filter. But now all I"ll have to do is get the correct oil filter, paint and stamp. Moving my car one more step towards that assembly line look.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/DavesStamp-1.jpg)
Looks GREAT!! I remember seeing an ultra high dollar original assembly line filter a couple of years ago and I thought the stamp was the same direction as yours......what kind/type of paint did you use? I've also had a stamp made and have tried acrylic hobby paint and kind of rolled the stamp onto the filter......haven't perfected it yet though.
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I've always just used spray paint on all the stampings I've done. Ive tried pads but not with the same success. Normally I would spray the paint onto a paper plate and stamp back and forth on a dry paper plate until I felt the paint on the stamp was right an then stamp the part. Because of the size of this stamp I wasn't getting the paint on the center of the stamp. After doing that with the first try on this filter and rolling it around the filter it looked bad. So I cleaned up the stamp and tried just spraying the pint directly onto the stamp with about 3 quick shots of the spray can. Then I rolled it around. I couldn't believe how well it turned out. I painted the correct oil filter today with the double crimp on the top. I will let it dry a couple of days before stamping. (just in case I have to clean and restamp more than once)Hope I get the same result.
Dave
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Dave,
Would it be possible to get your stamp manufacturer to do some extras which you could sell. I'll be interested, for sure.
Texas Swede
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This is the photo that was on ebay. Dave it however looks really nice!
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp77/brobbins341/a0a18b36.jpg)
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There was some discussion about the 4 numbers at the bottom being a date code. I made mine 2 65 6 for week = 26, year = 1965. Anyone know if this is correct?
Thanks,
Dave
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Dave,
Could the date code be, the calendar day and year like
the one on ebay, day 264 in 1967.
The same as the date codes on the proportioning valves.
Justt a thought,
Texas Swede
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Guys, I am wondering if "we" could somehow organize something to "loan" our various stamps to one-anouther for all the stuff we stamp? it seems so stupid for each one of us to spend $25.00 to have a stamp made-in this case just for an oil filter!
I had one made here locally and it WAS $25.00 I had mine made with the 28th week of '65 on it........
I'd be glad to send it to anyone who would pay the shipping both ways and take care of it.
I'm also trying to find a date stamp from the 60s to stamp a few parts on my engine...may be someone has one I could borrow??
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C5ZZKGT,
Some of the parts I've restored, once it's stamped, I'm done with the stamp, so you make a good point. I've made stamps for about everything I've found while dismantling my cars and from pictures of others. Maybe not a bad idea. I can tell you that stamping ain't always easy. I've loaned stamps out and it's easy to get frustrated if your doing it for the first time.
Today I finished stamping the filter I'm going to put on my car. Here's pic. the "G" wasn't as beautiful as I would have liked but I'm happy with it. It took me 3 trys.
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/DavesStampFinal.jpg)
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Dave that looks very nice!
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YES Dave, That looks GREAT!!! I think your "G" might be a "6" though....at least thats what mine is......what color and type of paint did you use again?-Rick
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I used Rust-Oleum Engine Enamel Paint 500 degree F, Semi Gloss Black and Yellow. The "G" that was a little messed up was in the word "Genuine". Thanks for all the comments.
Dave
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Gotcha. Thanks!! and I believe that your perseption of the date code it right too!
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I have a '66. Did these use the same stamp on a blue painted filter?
Rick
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I have a '66. Did these use the same stamp on a blue painted filter?
Rick
No don't believe so. I've seen some red filters (later cars) with a different end stamping but nothing like the square one on the side
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Heres anouther oil filter question that probably been asked before: Does anyone know when the "changeover" took place from the Early '65 "Red" reproduction filters to the "Later" "Gold" one? I guess we can use either the block color filter with the stamp or the correct Red or Gold depending on a particular cars scheduled build date.
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Recently discussed: http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=2524.0
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Thanks Charles!! Shoulda searched myself....
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I'd also be interested in purchasing the stamp if there were extras.
Best,
-William
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I'd be glad to load you mine, it has a date code of 2658......lmk.
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I have a late May 65 HiPO San Jose car. Can anyone help me with what numbers would be on the bottom of the stamp and the numer at the top?
Thanks for the great help.
Dave
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I have a late May 65 HiPO San Jose car. Can anyone help me with what numbers would be on the bottom of the stamp and the number at the top?
Dave I don't believe there is a consensus of how the numbering (date?) worked at this time.
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Is there any other part on the car that might have a simmiliar number sequence that we can possibly relate to this oil filter number, I have a guy asking me locally about mine and I'm not 100% certain and don't want to steer him wrong.
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Dave I don't believe there is a consensus of how the numbering (date?) worked at this time.
+1. Bob
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... I can tell you that stamping ain't always easy...
I was getting frustrated and then I FOUND THE TRICK!
Do NOT spray some flat surface that you then use as a stamp-pad.
DO spray a couple of light coats DIRECTLY onto the face of the stamp and then do the stamping. Works perfect 100% of the time.
* The paint gets a little tacky before you can get it stamped and that keeps it from sliding around.
* The amount of paint on the stamp is very uniform this way.
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I have a late May 65 HiPO San Jose car. Can anyone help me with what numbers would be on the bottom of the stamp and the numer at the top?
Thanks for the great help.
Dave
Dave, I had forgotten your user name on here. It was good meeting you last Sunday at Palm Bay Ford!
My stamp has the numbers "2658" on it so if you'd like to use it in the intrum you are more than welcome to it.
I think we might have a stumper on our hands for now.....
Was that NICE Yellow '70 Boss 302 at the show yours? -Rick
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Rick,
It was great meeting you.
I sold my Boss 302 a while ago but mine was a twin to that one.
I will contact you by email about using your stamp.
Thanks for the offer.
Dave
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Keep up the nice work Dave - Nice to see someone actually taking a stab at making this stamp.
Tony K.
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I HAVE a stamp sitting here on my desk. pretty accurate fonts, has "2658" on the bottom of it, if anyone would like to borrow it I'll send it their way-I'd like to borrow a date stamp that can do dates for 1965.....
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I though the oil filters were installed at the engine plant and painted with the engine. Therefor, the oil filter should be black for 65 and blue for 66 up with no ink stampings for a from the factory look.
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@ kiehlr, I don't know how to post an image but I have a picture of an original oil filter that's painted black on the block and then ink stamped. I can post it if someone tells me how or email to you. Also, if you have a Mustang Monthly from February 1988, on pg 18 the first image on the top left shows a filter that was painted on the block and then stamped; again I don't mind scanning and then posting the image or emailing it to you.
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I often wondered about the actual installation of the stamp myself.
I would have thought that provided the filter was installed BEFORE the engine was painted (1) what color the filter was to begin with? and how/who added the stamp since it looks almost impossible to stamp the filter with it installed.....
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If the filters were installed when the enines were painted...(makes sense) ...then it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for Ford to go to the time and expense of putting any markings on them.
Any markings on the filters would only serve the purpose of tracability to the manufacturer in case there was any quality issues.
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@ kiehlr, I don't know how to post an image but I have a picture of an original oil filter that's painted black on the block and then ink stamped. I can post it if someone tells me how or email to you. Also, if you have a Mustang Monthly from February 1988, on pg 18 the first image on the top left shows a filter that was painted on the block and then stamped; again I don't mind scanning and then posting the image or emailing it to you.
Heres the Pictures
Dave
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/19645to1965FactoryMustangOilFilter.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/WillsOilFiltePic.jpg)
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We do have to consider that many/at least some of the original oil filters we see pictures of today were ones that were smuggled out as lunch pail parts by workers so they.
Just a consideration
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If the filters were installed when the enines were painted...(makes sense) ...then it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for Ford to go to the time and expense of putting any markings on them.
Any markings on the filters would only serve the purpose of tracability to the manufacturer in case there was any quality issues.
It is my understanding and belief that the oil filters were NOT painted on the engine. First off if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove. That would not be a smart production procedure . Second it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter the way the engine blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted. We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes . It is may understanding they were painted block color (a different time and place) for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc. I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted on some filters (not all) which would also indicate it being painted separately. I am not sure if that is what i am seeing in the black and white photo posted before or not. Most of the assemblyline black filters I have seen had various stamps on them . Not all the same and a few without. Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine. I haven't seen any 66 ones unfortunately but the many 67-69 ones I have seen were consistent with the 65 ones I have seen in paint coverage etc. Of course the 67 -60 big block ones I have seen although block color had to be painted at another time since the oil filter adapter on a BB is not painted. I am confident the 65 BB filters were black also.This helps explain the earlier cars also . Just some of my opinions based on observations . Bob
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Only place I would differ Bob is that to me it would make more sense to have a filter in place or mask over the area where the oil filter would go since Ford didn't like paint on mating surfaces. Believe there are enough original examples indicating something was there to keep the gasket mating surface free of paint like other surfaces on the block
A moot point if the filters were not in place, but paint would never get to the surface (due to the gasket being in from the outer edge of the filter) so no way it could get "cemented to the block" with paint. Painted plenty on the block and never got much if any on the side of the gasket.
Don't disagree on the bigger subject since I have not seen as many original cars that never got an oil change
Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share.
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Only place I would differ Bob is that to me it would make more sense to have a filter in place or mask over the area where the oil filter would go since Ford didn't like paint on mating surfaces. Believe there are enough original examples indicating something was there to keep the gasket mating surface free of paint like other surfaces on the block
A moot point if the filters were not in place, but paint would never get to the surface (due to the gasket being in from the outer edge of the filter) so no way it could get "cemented to the block" with paint. Painted plenty on the block and never got much if any on the side of the gasket.
Don't disagree on the bigger subject since I have not seen as many original cars that never got an oil change
Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share.
Jeff , for my explanation to have merit, the filter if painted on the block would not have to get paint on the mating surfaces to make it difficult to remove. I have had many filters which were not painted on the block that were so tight and difficult to remove it was impossible to remove by hand and a filter wrench had to be employed to break it loose. There have been times when I have collapsed the side wall of a filter because I have had to twist so hard with a filter wrench. With that said if a filter is screwed onto the block tight and then painted on the block the paint that accumulates on the sides at the intersection where the two items meet adds extra "cement" between the block and the filter. Depending on how much paint accumulates ,it could take substantial more effort to remove then without any paint sticking in that area at all. It would make it more difficult to remove if painted then if not painted is the point I was making. Any extra effort to remove the filter would not be wanted by Ford engineers. I believe a mask was used in that area for this reason just at was used in that area on BB engines. I would like to remind that the big block engine filters were not like the unpainted Autolite or Rotunda filters but block color just like the small block ones and the big block filters were certainly not painted on the block. I hope this explains my point of view better.Bob
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Mr. Gaines,
If I may humbly interject my two cents worth...
Decisions about when to install the filters and what paint procedure would be used would be almost certainly a speed/convenience/labor cost decision. I would suspect that the Industrial Engineer setting up the engine painting procedure, used a partial thought process something like this:
Hey! we can screw on the ugly black or naked filters and shoot them engine color when the engine is being sprayed with almost ZERO additional paint.
That will also take care of masking off the gasket mating surface too.
It may add 2 seconds to the allocated time for engine spraying of 35 seconds.
NO paint will get under the lip because the painter's gun cannot direct the paint up in there.
Knowing the engine assembly process works, and personally watching them paint assembly-line
engines at the Yanmar factory near here, I have confidence that the filters were on when the engines were painted
and most of them had no stamped markings. There would be very little value in identifying lot number or production
date on filters after installation.
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Bryan, your logic is impeccable.
Jim
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...Come to think of it there is a 70 or so instructions for painting engine blocks somewhere in all my papers. Will have to did it out and see if it has anything to share...
I'd be willing to bet that document will support my 2 cents worth.
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It is my understanding and belief that the oil filters were NOT painted on the engine. First off if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove. That would not be a smart production procedure . Second it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter the way the engine blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted. We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes . It is may understanding they were painted block color (a different time and place) for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc. I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted on some filters (not all) which would also indicate it being painted separately. I am not sure if that is what i am seeing in the black and white photo posted before or not. Most of the assemblyline black filters I have seen had various stamps on them . Not all the same and a few without. Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine. I haven't seen any 66 ones unfortunately but the many 67-69 ones I have seen were consistent with the 65 ones I have seen in paint coverage etc. Of course the 67 -60 big block ones I have seen although block color had to be painted at another time since the oil filter adapter on a BB is not painted. I am confident the 65 BB filters were black also.This helps explain the earlier cars also . Just some of my opinions based on observations . Bob
"if painted on the engine the filter would be effectively cemented onto the block making it difficult to remove."
-- No way paint could be sprayed up under there without wasting A LOT of time.
"it would be extremely hard to get a consistent no drip finish on the surface of the filter all the way around the filter"
-- Not even a concern. Drips and runs would be the norm, and acceptable but not preferred.
"blocks were quickly and sometimes sparingly painted."
-- Always true! I'll bet 15 to 30 seconds max! Paint was expensive. Used as sparingly as possible.
"We have many stories of these filters being smuggled out of the plants in lunch boxes...I have seen some of these block colored filters with the lower crimped lip closest to the block unpainted"
-- It would be sensible for Assembly-Line filters from the manufacturer to be ordered and supplied to Ford, with a light coat of engine color coating, to prevent rust, and specified in the purchase order to have NO
PAINT near the rubber gasket end. This engine color base coat would save Ford money because it would take less paint to cover the filter as the engine was being sprayed after filter installation.
"for the purpose of distinguishing them from regular service parts sold to the public in the event of employee theft etc."
-- Either way, if 1000 were stolen, 1000 would never be caught if they ever successfully left the plant with them.
"Many of the stamped filters when screwed onto a engine would be in a unlikely position if they had to be stamped on the engine"
-- There would be absolutely NO reason for filters to have any markings after painting the engine. My suggestion is that ALL filters with stamped markings were as supplied from the filter manufacturer and NOT as
they were after the engines were painted.
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Bryan, I have to agree with your logic as well. What got me started was the $250.00 one from Ebay some 4 years ago......
-I am running a common FL-1A on my '65 K code engine, painted block color (Black) with the stamp applied that I had made-it works for me and all things considered it only cost me about $5.00 total to make-just that it doesn't have the double crimp-I stamped it twice-180* from each other and have found that useful in installing it so the stamp can be read.
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Mr. Gaines,
If I may humbly interject my two cents worth...
Decisions about when to install the filters and what paint procedure would be used would be almost certainly a speed/convenience/labor cost decision. I would suspect that the Industrial Engineer setting up the engine painting procedure, used a partial thought process something like this:
Hey! we can screw on the ugly black or naked filters and shoot them engine color when the engine is being sprayed with almost ZERO additional paint.
That will also take care of masking off the gasket mating surface too.
It may add 2 seconds to the allocated time for engine spraying of 35 seconds.
NO paint will get under the lip because the painter's gun cannot direct the paint up in there.
Knowing the engine assembly process works, and personally watching them paint assembly-line
engines at the Yanmar factory near here, I have confidence that the filters were on when the engines were painted
and most of them had no stamped markings. There would be very little value in identifying lot number or production
date on filters after installation.
What engines are painted at the Yanmar factory near you? We have provenance for the yellow stamp being on the 65 filters which is common that the Ford parts are marked in some way. The 65 filters with the yellow stamps are assemblyline units that are different then ones sold by dealers and for retail. I have observed the filters with the yellow stamps on NOS crate engines .There are examples of similar assemblyline type filters that are used for 66-69 filters as well. You may not be familiar with big block engines but the oil filter adapter was not on the engine and a mask was used to keep paint from that surface on the BB engine. That is a very common fact. The pot metal adapter wasn't painted and Ford didn't paint those filters ether. But the filters were still block colored assemblyline type filter. If the paint issue was of no concern as you suggest then the BB engines would be painted filter adapter filter and all . If Ford was able to mask that area on a BIG Block it would be of no consequence and much easier to mask the SB filter area as well. If there are concerns about paint in the filter area on a big block engine then why is it hard to imagine no concerns on a small block? Bob
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I agree with Bob Gaines , the filters were painted prior to installation. Trying to guess how the various engine plants painted their motors during the first generation of Mustangs production is meaningless.The filters came 24 per master pack painted engine color. Some plants during this time frame had a mask that went over the filter during painting process. Some filters had minimal overspray on them. Engines with oil filter/cooler adaptors that were natural had no overspray period. The filters were always painted prior to installation. I have not seen a blue Autolite filter with the 64-65 style yellow logo, but most blue Autolite assy line filters were date coded with the same orange/red font as the white Autolite service filters. The Blue Autolite assy line filters less the Autolite fancy artwork of the white service filters would also be a cost savings? Engine overspay patterns were not always consistent from factory photos and original cars I've seen even during the same model year.
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Boy I want to be careful here BUT ........
I very smart person once said to me "to what mileage are you restoring your car to?" It made me think, step back and consider -- an assembly line filter , with it's dates (and associated costs of today) would be LONG GONE at that first oil change -sometimes done at a dealer BEFORE sale to the public too !
In my case, knowing I had a 55K mile car and that I strive to use only original and not even service parts -STOPPED me . I installed an Autolite filter. I didn't care about the date - choose a 71 for this 69 car. (Mostly because I had them)
I have seen the 24 Master pack, I contemplated the $300 filter and in the end I was very happy to put the money and time elsewhere.
Mark
P.S. To be true to recreating a timeline - should I use a Motorcraft on the next oil change? That would be "wrong" for a 1969 - but it is what was avail for an oil change in 1979 !
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What engines are painted at the Yanmar factory near you? Bob
Yanmar engine assembly plant, Adairsville, GA.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/yanmar.jpg)
The company I work for did a lot of design and fab work for their 5 or 6 Dyno-Rooms.
I got to watch them assemble, paint, and dyno engines for several weeks. We fabricated many of their assembly jigs, tooling, and the dolly carts that new engines were transported on from the assembly area to the dyno cells... BY ROBOTS with magnetic tracks in the floor.
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...Trying to guess how the various engine plants painted their motors during the first generation of Mustangs production is meaningless...
Mr. Perkins,
Don't the folks in this froum and the concours world spend a significant amount of time and energy, doing precisely that about many aspects of Mustang manufacturing?
I think that's one of the fun parts of this hobby.
Humbly,
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Oh! Another job I did at Yanmar, when the company I work for was helping them get up and running, was making an 11ga steel spray mask for mounting surfaces on the blocks ...
...I had to take heavy paper, place it on engine finished surfaces, peck it with a steel object (which cut it) making a paper pattern. Then I'd scan it and trace it in AutoCAD. Then we'd burn it out of 11ga on the plasma table and weld on a handle.
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Mr. Perkins,
Don't the folks in this froum and the concours world spend a significant amount of time and energy, doing precisely that about many aspects of Mustang manufacturing?
I think that's one of the fun parts of this hobby.
Humbly,
Brian,
I prefer factual information rather than guessing how it may have been done. There are some great unrestored cars that attend MCA and SAAC national events that answer most technical questions that would arise during a restoration. There are many excellent examples of low mileage cars and crate motors that have original assy line filters.
Bob
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Bob,
I appreciate everything you have to offer this hobby. I never intended to challenge your years of experience and first hand knowledge. I just have experience in law enforcement investigation and am an engineer who enjoys playing "what if."
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Brian,
I appreciate and respect your comments and I'm sure Bob, Jeff and every one else here does also. Some restorers in the hobby in my opinion try to over think the 60's era assembly line process and ad lib how they think or wish things were done rather than what really was typical Ford production at the time. Original cars are the real historians.
Bob
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If there are ANY unrestored cars anywhere, that still have their proven assembly-line installed oil filters on them, that have never been unscrewed...then yes...that's the gospel.
A 24 count case somewhere that is purported to be a box of assembly-line filters, just like they would look after an assembly-line engine (not crate engine) was painted and installed in a car, would not be gospel, in my humble opinion.
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Dave-- I got my oil filter done last week. Thanks for letting me use your artwork. I modified your date code a bit. Not sure exactly what the numbers mean so I went with what, I think, is a September 21, 1964 date code--my engine was built in December of '64 so that seems about right.
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Hey Gary,
Great Job! Can't wait to see your completed car someday. You stamped that perfectly. Let me know if i can be of any more help.
Dave
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Hey Gary,
Great Job! Can't wait to see your completed car someday.
I can't wait to see my car completed someday too! Way funny--I'm at 98% right now. ;)
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Dave-- I got my oil filter done last week. Thanks for letting me use your artwork. I modified your date code a bit. Not sure exactly what the numbers mean so I went with what, I think, is a September 21, 1964 date code--my engine was built in December of '64 so that seems about right.
If I can ask a question about the filter date code 2644.
I thought I read here that it decodes as month (2), year (64), day (4)?
February 1964 4th.
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If I can ask a question about the filter date code 2644.
I thought I read here that it decodes as month (2), year (64), day (4)?
February 1964 4th.
Believe we would need more than one or two examples to figure out the dating pattern. With out more examples we're just guessing or "making" the date fit what we think it might be.
Just a thought
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I know I used to have it but can't seem to find a Rotunda stamp template for 65 oil filters. Anyone have this??
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Did you find one yet Charles--do you need to borrow mine?
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Hopefully the one I sent USPS last week will make it.
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Thanks to all that replied. Looks like I'm good to go.
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Hi, I was looking for info on the 65 oil filter and came to this topic.... what would be the difference on applications (manufactured dates, plants, etc) on this black filter with the Rotunda R1-a red one?
I'm interested on buying this template.... if someone have it and willing to sell, please send me PM.....
Another doubt, which is exactly the filter you use to put this template on? Do you get a FL-1 filter or the Rotunda red one (R1-a) and just repaint it in black.... Is the FL-1 filter same size as R1-a?
I appreciate your help on replicating this filter.
Thank you,
Luis
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Hi, I was looking for info on the 65 oil filter and came to this topic.... what would be the difference on applications (manufactured dates, plants, etc) on this black filter with the Rotunda R1-a red one?
I'm interested on buying this template.... if someone have it and willing to sell, please send me PM.....
Another doubt, which is exactly the filter you use to put this template on? Do you get a FL-1 filter or the Rotunda red one (R1-a) and just repaint it in black.... Is the FL-1 filter same size as R1-a?
I appreciate your help on replicating this filter.
Thank you,
Luis
Luis as far as a donor filter to paint black and use you have a couple of choices. Get the repro red filter with the double crimp fluting on the top and paint it black or buy a NOS red filter to paint black. Any other filter current FL1 included will look noticeably different then original. Unless everything else is Thoroughbred quality on your car(tires,battery etc. ) I would opt for the repro filter to use as a donor. The difference between the repro and original is minimal. The point is ,original is best but would not be consistent unless everything else is of the same level on the car IMO.
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Thanks for the quick reply Bob!
And what about the differences on applications? I always knew that Red Rotunda filter is correct for late 64 and early 65' cars? What about this black one?
I will also appreciate if you could tell me about the template for a black one.
Thank you,
Luis
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Thanks for the quick reply Bob!
And what about the differences on applications? I always knew that Red Rotunda filter is correct for late 64 and early 65' cars? What about this black one?
Its the difference between what the engine was originally delivered from the engine plant with and what would have been installed at the first or following services. Some clubs have for years allowed for either (red Rotunda for example) I'm sire most today would suggest that many/most restorers would choose the black over the red Rotunda today. There are a number of threads discussing the assembly line filters here on the site along with pictures from the engine plant in 64 and 65 if you search them out
As for mixing and matching originals and repos all depends on the organization (if your taking the car to a judged event) the judges, the class and the owner. Know many that choose to add original parts over a close reproduction. Just makes them happier ;) And not something that the judges will ding you for
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Thank you Jeff,
I had read some of those threads regarding oil filters, and here is another info that I think is useful:
http://www.robertson.org.nz/domino/tbirddoc.nsf/f5b2cbf2a827c0198525624b00057d30/ce4c4828c7c7f1c4cc256bc4003161af!OpenDocument
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There was an NOS oil filter listed on EBay as item 323373059932 that was listed as an assembly line unit installed on ‘65 Mustangs. It’s a Rotunda piece that is black with yellow lettering. I have a “Shorty” oil filter I had understood was used on several early Mustangs. It’s also black with yellow lettering but says Fomoco rather than Rotunda. It says it’s to be changed after 1000 miles of use. Does anyone know which years and particular cars ended up with a longer black Rotunda filter and which might have got the shorty version? Attached is the shorty filter.
Matt
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Did you take a look at the pictures in the Assembly Line section of the site. This would include the pictures of the engines waiting to be shipped as well as the hot and oil tests? That would be one place to start
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There was an NOS oil filter listed on EBay as item 323373059932 that was listed as an assembly line unit installed on ‘65 Mustangs. It’s a Rotunda piece that is black with yellow lettering. I have a “Shorty” oil filter I had understood was used on several early Mustangs. It’s also black with yellow lettering but says Fomoco rather than Rotunda. It says it’s to be changed after 1000 miles of use. Does anyone know which years and particular cars ended up with a longer black Rotunda filter and which might have got the shorty version? Attached is the shorty filter.
Matt
I haven't seen a shorty filter on a 65/66 V8 Mustang before. Not sure about the 6 cyl but assume it is the same. Typically the full size versions were seen on Mustangs of that vintage.The shorties I have seen before were from the Ford Tractor line. I'm not what other application there might be for the short ones in 65/66.
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Thanks Jeff. I did brows some of the assembly line section as you’d suggested. Some interesting photos have been posted. Among them there is one in particular of a Cleveland engine plant doing an oil pressure test on a ‘64 289 Hi-po for a Comet. Clearly has a black shorty filter. There were no other photos I could find showing other years of hi-po engines to see how far the shorty might have carried.
Matt
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Thanks Jeff. I did brows some of the assembly line section as you’d suggested. Some interesting photos have been posted. Among them there is one in particular of a Cleveland engine plant doing an oil pressure test on a ‘64 289 Hi-po for a Comet. Clearly has a black shorty filter. There were no other photos I could find showing other years of hi-po engines to see how far the shorty might have carried.
Matt
Matt ,Test engines aside they obviously had applications on Ford engines otherwise they wouldn't exist.It is a very cool historical item. FYI there are also slightly wider (thicker) shorty filters that had more capacity then the thinner one you show a picture of that was used back in the day on various non Mustang applications. As far as how long they were used there is evidence to support a shorty version (thicker one) being used on 67 and 68 GT500 applications with air conditioning . The extended oil filter /oil cooler adapter made the filter hang down too low so the thicker shorty was substituted (blue Autolite embossed in that case). The shorty filter wasn't typically used on regular production 65 Mustang V8 engines from all evidence . I just don't want others reading this thread to get confused thinking that they were typically used on 65 V8 Mustangs. The black filters changed to blue for 1966 production.They matched the engine block color.
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I don't have it handy, but that Martha & The Vandellas video on the DAP assembly line shows a V8 being installed. There's a nice side-shot of the engine and oil filter while it's being lowered in. I've also heard of the short filters, but don't have any documentation to support.
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According to the original owner of my 66 289 Hi Po who was also employed at Cleveland 1 engine plant the short filters were used as a break in filter for Hi Performance applications. I have a factory photo of 63-64 427 with short filter . I have not seen a Blue shorty so this was probably a pre 1966 thing? The black ones were pretty common lunch pail parts at swap meets in late 80's.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/fx9j5i.jpg)
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Thanks all who have chimed in and offered some examples on this. Very helpful!
-Matt
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I have not seen a Blue shorty so this was probably a pre 1966 thing?
Why would there need to be a blue filter? Were they not just painted with the engine?
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Why would there need to be a blue filter? Were they not just painted with the engine?
The filters regardless of color were not painted with the engine.
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I am posting a copy of the Ford SB engine painting instructions. The very top of the list is the oil filter pad. Of course a filter was not in place when the engine was painted given the instructions. This is a 1970 version however there is no reason to think it was any different in regard to the matter being discussed for the earlier years.