ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Boss => Topic started by: Bossbill on December 06, 2021, 03:05:10 PM
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NOTE: The first 19 posts were originally part of another discussion. Since the discussion started to focus on one particular detail I thought it a good time to separate these from the original thread
To piggy-back on Doug's post...
Back around the time I got the Shelby I also purchased a Boss 302.
It has all the exterior adds (shaker, slats, wing, wheels) as well as a 63B code deluxe interior coded EA.
As per the Farr book:
"The Decor Group included knitted vinyl seats or spectrum 'blazer' cloth seats (vermillion or ginger colors only), deluxe 2 spoke steering wheel (with woodgrain insert), woodgrain instrument appliques and molded door panels with woodgain inserts and courtesy lights. [ed:skip exterior color section] The Boss 302 Decor Interior option was very similar to the Mach I interior, but did not include a clock or woodgrain radio molding. [ed:the clock could be ordered and would be round with Decor Group]."
My car has this interior with the three woodgrain buttons (each front) and two for each side of the rear seat. It has the no-woodgrain radio bezel and molded door panels.
It also has its crappy original no toe pad carpet!
The only difference is that mine has the optional 3 spoke rim-blow.
If I read the NPD catalog right, each Decor button is $17 !
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Boss Bill,
Thanks for the confirmation.
Couple of things I've now learned or still scratching my head on.
I did not know the clock did not come with the Wood grain dash pieces. I would of put one in without thinking twice.
Wood grain insert in two spoke is another learned bit.
I also did not know the radio bezel would be camera case vice woodgrain as mentioned by both you and Doug.. My Boss does not have a radio listed in the Eminger or window sticker, no antennae hole in fender, so I believe mine is a radio delete car. However I spent the money on wood grain radio delete plate already so may have to do some thinking on that one.
This is where assuming gets me in trouble and shows how research, friends, experts and survivors lead you to closer to the real truth.
Thanks all,
Dan in Kansas
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Couple of things I've now learned or still scratching my head on.
I did not know the clock did not come with the Wood grain dash pieces. I would of put one in without thinking twice.
If the gauges had the woodgrain (70 Boss Deluxe interior packages) so would the passenger filler or clock panel as well as the heater/radio surround
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-061221193953-16501430.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-061221193810-16499684.jpeg)
I also did not know the radio bezel would be camera case vice woodgrain as mentioned by both you and Doug.. My Boss does not have a radio listed in the Eminger or window sticker, no antennae hole in fender, so I believe mine is a radio delete car. However I spent the money on wood grain radio delete plate already so may have to do some thinking on that one.
You correct in that the shipping invoice and the Marti report (as well as other documents) would have the radio and type of radio printed on them if your car was ordered without a radio. My Boss is the same
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If the gauges had the woodgrain (70 Boss Deluxe interior packages) so would the passenger filler or clock panel as well as the heater/radio surround
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-061221193810-16499684.jpeg)
You correct in that the shipping invoice and the Marti report (as well as other documents) would have the radio and type of radio printed on them if your car was ordered without a radio. My Boss is the same
Jeff, are you sure about the radio woodgrain surround? There are several threads over on the BOSS site plus two owners in this thread that their deluxe interior had the standard black radio surround. My car is also deluxe interior and has the same black radio surround.
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Jeff, are you sure about the radio woodgrain surround? There are several threads over on the BOSS site plus two owners in this thread that their deluxe interior had the standard black radio surround. My car is also deluxe interior and has the same black radio surround.
Ones I have pictures of do. Of course you have examples where radios were not ordered with cars and added to the cars at the dealerships, panels being replaced over the years and other things like possible supply issues if the examples without the wood grain were all built at the same plant at the same or about the same time. Also we have the great IMHO possibility of cars being changed over the 50 plus years especially higher valued and performance based cars.
Don't understand why Ford would design an interior using the woodgrain and not use a radio plate they were making and installing on other cars with the same wood grain on doors and dashes as they did the previous years.
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I found it interesting that Farr mentioned the camera case center too.
Perhaps the no radio center came in camera case only? Is the radio block off part of the center a separate piece? Or a one piece like the 67?
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Ones I have pictures of do. Of course you have examples where radios were not ordered with cars and added to the cars at the dealerships, panels being replaced over the years and other things like possible supply issues if the examples without the wood grain were all built at the same plant at the same or about the same time. Also we have the great IMHO possibility of cars being changed over the 50 plus years especially higher valued and performance based cars.
Don't understand why Ford would design an interior using the woodgrain and not use a radio plate they were making and installing on other cars with the same wood grain on doors and dashes as they did the previous years.
Jeff,
Not sure I understand either, although we do know Shinoda wasn?t a fan of ?dress up? accessories.
Back in 2003 there was an owners survey on that other forum, the majority (approx 2/3) including many original owners commented that their BOSS 302 with the deluxe interior had the black camera trim with original AM radios or 8-tracks. Furthermore in addition to the previous comments about Donald Farr?s book, there are interior photos in his book showing the woodgrain instrument and passenger panel but camera case black radio surround.
I did have a look at the photo gallery of unrestored examples here, but there are no interior BOSS 302 photos that I found.
Mine came equipped with AM radio if that is of relevance. Maybe FM radio got the woodgrain?
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Ignore my previous ramblings. I hadn't done my homework.
The no radio center is one piece.
If you had a deluxe dash it would be woodgrain.
There were dealers that liked to order cars without radios so that they could add them and net the profit.
Perhaps when they added radios they used the std radio bezel? Could be more of them were available.
Maybe someone has a dealer add-on kit to show?
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Team,.
Good evening. I'm glad I asked my question and conversation has evolved. I have yet to double check my Marti report and Eminger. But, if I understand the dominant responses so far. My reports would have to show a clock as an option, otherwise woodgrain passenger side dash panel without clock. Then my radio delete plate would be camera case finish. Despite the fact the dash inserts, two spoke wheel and molded door pads all contained woodgrain inserts. No exception for radio delete panel to be woodgrain? I will verify my reports by this weekend when I can get them out.
Thanks all,
Dan
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............................ Then my radio delete plate would be camera case finish. Despite the fact the dash inserts, two spoke wheel and molded door pads all contained woodgrain inserts. No exception for radio delete panel to be woodgrain? I will verify my reports by this weekend when I can get them out.
Don't believe that the camera finished radio trim plate was the conclusion if we're talking about what was typically installed at the factory. Believe I can produce a fair number of woodgrain examples but your car and choice
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There were dealers that liked to order cars without radios so that they could add them and net the profit.
Perhaps when they added radios they used the std radio bezel? Could be more of them were available.
I thought about this possibility, as well. Except my car was built with an AM radio, not dealer installed. And with the black camera case radio bezel, verified by both previous owners.
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I thought about this possibility, as well. Except my car was built with an AM radio, not dealer installed. And with the black camera case radio bezel, verified by both previous owners.
Just noticed what a very late (in the production year) your car was. Will look through my pictures carefully and at other color combinations to see if there might have been a supply issue or a change in what they were installing at Dearborn. We'll see what this produces
HDAshmore - When was your car completed at Dearborn? Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post
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Mine is a late car as well.
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Hope this helps the OP since we've kind of taken a focus on late built cars for the moment.
Going to withhold the use of the word "discovery" at this point given the small number of the sampling of both the woodgrain and the black camera finishes for the radio bezel on the cars in the discussion. It is interesting that at least at this point it appears that there is a possibility that there may have been a change late in the year at Dearborn on these cars. Unfortunately we don't have any real build dates for most examples but at this point in the study we're focusing on what possibility took place rather than an exact date of the change
EXAMPLES+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
0F02G181xxx - Wood grain
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-101221172230-1652880.jpeg)
0F02G190xxx - Black ADDED since the original posting
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-111221175621-165327.jpeg)
0F05M193xxx - Wood grain
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-101221172233-165301387.jpeg)
0F02G194xxx - Black
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-101221172230-16527430.jpeg)0F05H200897
0F05H2008xx - Wood grain Also in the unrestored picture section. Since we know that cars were not built in sequential order having a few higher digit cars with a possible earlier feature than an earlier VINed example is not unusual. Car was ordered with an AM radio according to the buildsheet.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-101221175550-16531891.jpeg)
0F02G203277 - Black - Real build date June 22, 1970 - DougDyar
0F02G206xxx - Black Was ordered with AM radio according to the Marti report
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-101221172233-165291641.jpeg)
For earlier cars I've got unrestored examples with the wood grain bezel found on the following cars.
0F05H1118xx
0F05M1201xx
0F05M1265xx
0F04H1274xx
0F05R1275xx
0F02G136xxx (Added since the original posting)
0F02Z1409xx
0F05R1631xx
0F05M1769xx
Of course there are many restored examples but left them out of the survey as usual
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Team,
My B2 was Dearborn 25 March 1970 build date. Confirmed on build sheet Coded EA. Once again, RADIO DELETE, if that may make a difference on Wood grain or not? Also, to add to the mix it came with a console from the factory. Decore group option. So, would the console insert be woodgrain or camera case or are all inserts the same?
Interesting thread so far and thanks for all the insight and analysis so far.
Dan in Kansas
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Jeff,
Are these exclusively BOSS ?G? codes built at Dearborn?
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Jeff,
Are these exclusively BOSS ?G? codes built at Dearborn?
No not this time in reply #17. In earlier looks/scans through I stayed with just the Boss 302's with the TA interior code as requested as this thread was separated from the non-Boss 302 thread.
In this scan I focused on other interior types that had wood grain dash and passenger side filler/clock panels to see if there might be a change in what was available to the Dearborn workers or some other possible supply issue.
Appears that we found that like what has been reported for one owner with a TA interior in a Boss we see reflected in other interior types and the usage of the black or wood grain radio bezel at this point in the discussion.
Don't believe that the discussion over on the Boss site ever compared the details - as sometimes happens over there. Just the way things tend to evolve
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Maybe this needs a dedicated threat with only BOSS (T&F) builds, so not to confuse people with actual observations and known photographs of actual original unrestored and even unmolested BOSS 302s.
Right now with all the general woodgrain interior photos and no model indicated in the VIN code(not sure why it?s omitted?) it would appear to the casual reader that woodgrain radio surround was a certainty in a BOSS with deluxe interior, but feedback (unsubstantiated / no photographic evidence) from original owners on the other forum is that is far from true. After all, if the black camera case surround with deluxe interior was due to owners swapping after delivery, then one would reasonably expect all deluxe interior mustangs (BOSS or not) to have a similar frequency of replacement black surrounds installed. I am not sure that is true.
One pattern (assuming it?s not date related) that could be worth exploring is the radio option and if it correlates to the trim. The cars I have observed with the camera black surround were either original AM or AM-8track. Every FM radio install I have seen so far has the woodgrain surround. Coincidence maybe? I should add that I was initially convinced my black surround was incorrect so that is when I started paying attention to the interior details of judged BOSSes.
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Hopefully this will come across in the well meaning intent of this response. So much can be lost when communication in this medium
To respond to some of your questions and concerns
Firstly, the posting of the shortened VINs without the body type and engine size is just my common practice as you can see from hundreds of posts. I just defaulted to that pattern when posting.
As far as keeping the conversation focused only on Boss 302 with a certain interior code I think we got off that and started to include other interior codes that may or may not have had the woodgrain radio bezel and even possibly cars assembled at other plants since some of the anecdotal examples were not specific in this and other details. Don't see anything wrong with exploring and discussing the related factors and possibilities since they MAY all be related. We don't know unless we look into it.
I don't believe that Boss cars were assembled in a vacuum and that a supply issue affecting, for example, Grandes and Mach I?s that also had wood grain interior items would affect Boss 302?s built at the same plant.
In the end I have no vested interest in the findings. I don?t own a 70 Boss unlike you and the others. Only trying to find out what did or may have happened with no bias or predetermined beliefs.
As we've both posted the possibility of this being or also being connected to factory verses dealer installed radios is another component that should be explored. Not sure how many unrestored examples for that are available but worth at least trying. I have Marti reports showing some of these cars unfortunately I don? t think any of those cars are unrestored or that I have confirmation pictures of that detail.
Hopey - This the thread from Oct 2005 the thread you were referring to earlier?
http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=20074.msg129762#msg129762 (http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=20074.msg129762#msg129762)
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Added body type and engine size to reply #17 Also found a couple more 70 Boss 302 examples I added to the post and noted those additions
As a note in the Boss 302 registery thread I listed above there were, by my count, seven respondents that did not identify themselves as original owners. In general most did not include if their car was restored or believed to be original and often no production date or plant was identified. Summary of what those owners offered below.
- One Dearborn Boss with a black radio bezel. Uncertain if it's original to the car and the reason for the thread
- One suggesting that the difference might be due to a supply issue though he posted his opinion at the time. Don't recall if his car's interior code
- 0F02G1508xx with a black radio bezel
- One wood grain without identifying plant or production date. Likely a NJ built car 0T02G115xxx ONLY one that identified their car as an unrestored example
- Late June 70 with black radio bezel. No plant provided though likely 0F02G2055xx
- Another NJ example
- One Dearborn Boss with a black radio bezel. Likely 12/6/69 completed car.
- One wood grain without identifying plant or production date May be 0F02G129xxx
Also while looking for VINs and such ran across another example of an earlier car - 0F02G142xxx. You can see why I missed this one before. Only a sliver of the bezel is visible.
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/16/6-111221182733-165331497.jpeg)
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Team,
Also, to add to the mix it came with a console from the factory. Decore group option. So, would the console insert be woodgrain or camera case or are all inserts the same?
Dan, I believe your console would be wood grain with the deluxe interior.
Doug
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Jeff, appreciate your update & well meaning. As you, I?ve no bias one way or another, just trying to keep my BOSS as built. I actually purchased a woodgrain radio panel at Carlisle a few years ago but never installed as others pointed me towards this ?discrepancy? if you can call it that. Plus being able to substantiate & document these idiosyncrasies is important when showing my BOSS.
Thread on the BOSS site I gave a bump a couple days ago:-
http://www.boss302.com/smf/index.php?topic=1672.0;all
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....Perhaps the no radio center came in camera case only? Is the radio block off part of the center a separate piece? Or a one piece like the 67?
Radio block offs are a single molded piece like the 67's-69's were. Available in black camera and "walnut". Also if your counting there was a Cougar wood grain version also. Don't know if there were any that carried a D0 engineering number on the plate
To expand on what would possibly take place on those cars that had radios added at the dealership.
Don't have any 70 kits but looking at 69 kits both the Cougar and Mustang kits (yes there were two different part numbers for these kits) neither had a radio bezel included in the kit. Not sure if posting those would help as the focus for this thread is if the radio plate was included and in turn influenced what was installed.
In prior years and other Ford models the face plates and radio bezels were included in the kits so at least it was something to check
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Hopey thanks for that thread. Appears that it got heated at times. Sure wish that someone would have gotten where each example/report included what plant and when so that we could do more with the information and see if patterns could be seen.
Even 69's thrown in that long thread :)
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Team,
Not to belabor this more but I am still trying to see if anyone can answer the Radio delete option question. March 25, 1970, Dearborn B2 with EA code radio delete. Would my B2 have a camera case or wood grain radio block off plate? I really appreciate every response so far. I now know I should not have a clock and my console should be woodgrain insert. Radio block off plate is all I am curious about now.
Thanks for the great knowledge and support.
Dan in Kansas