ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: drummingrocks on March 14, 2011, 11:34:28 PM
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I recently received my new reproduction leaf springs for my '69 Mach 1. They came from Eaton, and look excellent. However, they are coated in a really thick coat of what I'm guessing is black paint, obviously for rust protection. Now, I've had the reproduction shackle kit for a few weeks, and the shackles seem to be coated with the same black paint.
I've only messed with the shackles in my spare time, but so far I've tried:
1. Glass beading them in my blasting cabinet (literally does nothing to affect the finish)
2. Put them on a bench grinder with a wire wheel attachment (the paint VERY slowly comes off, but you have to get extremely aggressive with the wire wheel)
3. Sandblasted them with actual blasting sand and my outside sandblaster (Again, works very slowly, but appears to be taking the paint off).
4. Coated an entire shackle with aircraft stripper (does nothing at all, doesn't even appear to be softening the paint whatsoever)
5. Let a shackle sit in lacquer thinner overnight (again, does nothing at all).
How are you guys getting these things stripped back to bare metal? I've never, ever seen a paint or coating that is as tough as this stuff. Literally nothing phases it! I need some other ideas, guys, please, and surely someone's come up against this before me?
Thanks!
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I forgot to mention also: What's a good protectant to protect the bare metal after I get the springs stripped? I've thought about using Eastwood's Diamond Clear. I've also heard several people speak positively about Rustoleum Stainless Steel paint, as it seems to duplicate the bare metal look pretty closely. I've also heard about Boeshield T-9, but I'm unsure about what the upkeep would be. This car, though not going to be a daily driver, is still going to be something that I want to be able to drive when I want to. I doubt very seriously that I would remember to keep up a constant regiment of waxing or oiling the leaf springs. Any advice is appreciated!
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I followed the advice Jeff offered. I painted mine with Eastwoods zinc phosphate followed by a dusting of interior charcoal sprayed from 4 feet above. They turn out nice when each leaf is done separately and reassembled.
I don't see a problem with media blasting and then following the above mentioned process.
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Aircraft grade paint stripper or shot peening. Using other media can cause metal to lose temper
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I followed the advice Jeff offered. I painted mine with Eastwoods zinc phosphate followed by a dusting of interior charcoal sprayed from 4 feet above. They turn out nice when each leaf is done separately and reassembled.
I don't see a problem with media blasting and then following the above mentioned process.
Is this the charcoal interior paint that's used on '69 Mustangs? I've heard of a lot of people using a "charcoal" on the interior of these cars. Just want to be sure I buy the right thing!
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That's what I used, the 1969 interior charcoal. Use an uneven mist to add authenticity. Apply even coats of zinc phosphate. I think it took 2 cans to coat the individual springs.
http://www.4freeimagehost.com/show.php?i=PUSHfdd8f430f6ab.jpg
http://www.4freeimagehost.com/show.php?i=PUSH1ec582eb7624.jpg
http://www.4freeimagehost.com/show.php?i=PUSHb79d2f7b8d9a.jpg
These are rust free original springs I found in CA. They were media blasted with aluminum oxide and then painted.
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SunlitGold, you were lucky to find an original, unrusted set! Around here, most of the ones I've tried to take out and "save" haven't been worth the effort. Without any coating, these things just didn't last, especially if the car ever saw winter.
Thanks for the pictures. You do excellent work!
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Can you post some pics of your new Eatton Springs, I would like to see pics of the new springs.
Thanks,
Tony K.
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Sounds like they are either powder coated or E Coated now.
The clamps that NPD was selling were natural , but like all Repro not correct in comparison to OEM.
I too sand blasted my originals from AZ, and installed the repro rubber from the NPD ones.
It's too bad about the way the springs are coming. I don't play in the show game, but there was a time that BLACK was accepted I think. Now it is back to oil quenched black, with natural clamps. (I THINK)
Mark
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I recently received my new reproduction leaf springs for my '69 Mach 1. They came from Eaton, and look excellent. However, they are coated in a really thick coat of what I'm guessing is black paint, obviously for rust protection. Now, I've had the reproduction shackle kit for a few weeks, and the shackles seem to be coated with the same black paint.
I've only messed with the shackles in my spare time, but so far I've tried:
I bought the Eaton springs about a year and a half ago and they too had this heavy rubbery black coating. I took them apart and used Klean Strip KS-3 from Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/Paint/h_d1/N-5yc1vZar2d/R-100144685/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Paint/h_d1/N-5yc1vZar2d/R-100144685/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053) It didn't bubble and blister instead it just turned soft. Then I used a brush to clean it off. After a few coats they came very clean but it did take some time. Sounds like you tried something similar so don't know if it will work if they changed something.
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Thanks, I think they turned out nice too.
At the 2009 Mustang Stampede show in Raleigh, I saw several cars sitting way too high in the back. I knew only a set of original springs would do, you won't get the letter "E" on the round sections like the originals have either. I was fortunate to find the rust free ones on Craigslist for a cheap price and alot less headache it sounds like.
The media blasting didn't effect the thickness of the metal on mine, has a real nice stance.
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eaton wanted to charge me $150 to remove the paint. ouch.
i media blasted, sprayed two coats reduced black DP epoxy, one mist coat of eastwood zinc phosphate and a haze of clear. the bands are still natural and will need a protectant. i couldn't figure out how to paint and not chip them while putting them on. the bottom leafs are still original. i'm a little concerned about how the car is going to sit. i have a hard time believing the media is going to effect the spring rate.
my original clamps had round holes, the repro's i got have square holes.
of course my car isn't remotely concours.
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/buckeyedemon/69%20Mustang%20Mach%201/components/IMG_0195.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/buckeyedemon/69%20Mustang%20Mach%201/components/IMG_0210.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/buckeyedemon/69%20Mustang%20Mach%201/components/IMG_0222.jpg)
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Thanks for all the replies. I'll be honest, I hear what you guys are saying about "correct" springs not sitting correctly once they're installed on the car. I used TWO sets of Eaton springs on my '66 fastback, one from Mustangs Unlimited, one from CJ Pony Parts. At the time, I thought that maybe I had gotten the wrong set from MU. Anyway, the car sat up about 3 inches too high...it looked awful. Then, when I got what I thought were the "correct" springs from CJ's, the ride height was the same.
I had the original springs to compare to the repros, and the repros clearly had way too much arch. Unfortunately, I didn't find this out until I went through two sets, AND I had already painted and detailed the CJ springs. I ended up having to have the springs de-arched 2 inches by a local driveline shop. Of course, they scratched the heck out of them and I got to repaint them again, but at least the car sat correctly.
I dread so badly going through this mess with the current springs on the car I'm working on now. Heck, maybe I'll actually get a "correct" set that sits close to original? :( I don't mean to gripe--the Eaton springs are definitely better than having nothing at all to work with. But when they claim that they are reproducing these springs to exact specifications and two sets of springs are that far off (but are "correct" according to the supplier's application chart), then we have a problem. I'm tempted to mock up these springs before I even attempt to detail them; better to have them arched or de-arched now rather than later. Again, I hate to complain....but this is a pretty sore topic with me. Ok, move along, people, nothing to see here. Rant's over. ;D
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The Eaton Springs may settle over time, maybe the cars I saw were not driven much, I just didn't want to take such a chance with the cost involved. Yours look nice.
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Who sells the repro clamps and what were these springs used on in 68 besides CJ's?
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Who sells the repro clamps and what were these springs used on in 68 besides CJ's?
Believe AMK - There are two different sizes (width) so measure first
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eaton wanted to charge me $150 to remove the paint. ouch.
. i have a hard time believing the media is going to effect the spring rate.
I would think so too but that is what Eaton claims and why they only recommend shotpeening for blasting. My media guy also does shotpeening and charges me like $25 a set.
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What is shot peening? And how is it different from glass beading or sandblasting?
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Drummingrocks, what did it cost you to have the springs de-arched? Did you have to bring all the leaves, fully assembled?
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Drummingrocks, what did it cost you to have the springs de-arched? Did you have to bring all the leaves, fully assembled?
I've got the invoice at the shop. I'll look tomorrow and let you know. I did bring them in fully assembled.
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Can you post some pics of your new Eatton Springs, I would like to see pics of the new springs.
Tony, here you go. Here's several shots of the new springs, as well as a few of the new springs side by side with the originals.
http://img848.imageshack.us/slideshow/webplayer.php?id=misc006.jpg
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What is shot peening? And how is it different from glass beading or sandblasting?
Below is a reply from Mike Eaton,
All springs have a finite life, that is one day the will fail. This failure can take more than one form. The most drastic is breaking. But the one we see the most is a gradual loss of hieght. Spring rate is not lost, just their ability to supoort weight which causes them to sag.
All good quality leaf springs are made for SAE 5160 which is a high alloy spring steel. Once formed and heat treated this steel retains it's memory. As the spring gradually sags it's memory also goes lower. If the spring is reset/re-curved while cold it's internal memory will bring it back to the low position. Even if no weight is applied to the spring it will sag back down.
The only way to correctly rearch a leaf spring is by annealing, reforming and then reheat treating it. We have written an on-line article describing how any why it is done, http://eatonsprings.com/rearching.htm.
Due to the high volume of Mustang springs we make we must coat them to prevent rust. And thanks to the EPA we must use a paint which conforms to the rules and regulation. And the butt ugly black it is. Keeping in mind that spring steel begans to soften at 400 degrees F, to remove this one can use just about any method they would like providing the tempurature of the steel does not reach 400 degrees.
Because Ford Motor owns the right to the part number we can not stamp it onto the bottom of the new spring. So many do reuse the old bottom leaf and install it onto their new spring.
While shot peening removes the scale formed in the heat treating process, it's main function is to stress relieve the steel. We like to say that when the spring comes out of heat treat it's molecules are not happy. Shot peening makes for happy moecules and happy molecules result is a long lasting spring.
I hope this helps. Mike Eaton
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Drummingrocks, what did it cost you to have the springs de-arched? Did you have to bring all the leaves, fully assembled?
The shop charged me $40, which I thought was more than fair. They must've had some sort of reference, because I sent the springs in asking for the car to sit an inch lower, and they ended up taking an inch and a half out of the ride height, as per the note on the invoice. Either way, they chose correctly, as the car sits absolutely perfectly now.