ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: 66GTCoupe on March 17, 2011, 10:33:06 PM
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Looking for information on 6 cylinder front coil spring stripe color any help would be appreciated. nov 11 build date 1966
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Basically, it looks like Pink, Green or Violet depending upon body style and options.
Can you give a little more detail:
Body style
Transmission
Power or Manual Steering
With/Without Thermactor
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66 convertible, with power steering that help
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Well, it kinda narrows it down some. According to the MPC, if it had power steering then it eliminates the pink stripe. So it'll be green or violet depending on whether the car has a thermactor and/or air conditioning. The green was rated for 1344 lbs. and the violet 1413 lbs. The weight of the accessories determined the load rating needed.
My Sprint 200 convertible is a plain jane with none of the load-adding extras, so it got the pink stripe 1279 lb. coils.
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Well, it kinda narrows it down some. According to the MPC, ........
Have allot of examples where the MPC (especially the later versions) colors do not match what is found on original cars. So I would caution people of using that as a sole source for markings.
Remember (especially springs) these applications often changed a couple of times during the product year. As an example in 66 there was apparently a change in Feb 14
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The 1975 MPC specifies the different spring applications before and after 2/14/66. This particular question involved a Nov. 11 build date, so I'm figuring pre-February. Still not sure about the options I mentioned (thermactor and AC). Once we can determine that, I can find what the MPC has to say. Then it's up to the rest of this Concours community to determine if their "real world" observations validate this data. Is there a more appropriate way to go about this?
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.......Is there a more appropriate way to go about this?
IMHO that would be the choice of not to install paint marks until they have been supported by "real world" findings. Remember that not putting them on will not cost an owner points and placing them on always invites others to view and copy. ;)
Just me - rather be safe than sorry they say
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I suppose. But it doesn’t really advance the knowledge base collectively. There’s a Japanese proverb that goes something like, “None of us is as smart as all of us.” IMHO, the value of forums such as this is many hundreds of people looking at their cars, all with different levels of experience, and saying, “This is what I know or what I’ve seen.”
You start with a piece of knowledge and expand upon it from there. In this case, it seemed a fitting place to start with the MPC.
Entries there are a matrix depending upon body style, engine size, transmission, steering type, AC, build date, Thermactor and SHP. Not really appropriate grounds for a cookie-cutter approach such as simply copying what someone else has done/seen.
We look at an MPC and say this is what it says here. It’s a baseline point; nothing more.
From my own experience with 6-cylinder build sheets, I can already say there is reason to question what Ford did with respect to what the MPC says. As I mentioned earlier my Sprint is supposed to have the 1279 lb. Pink springs. I have another build sheet that because the car has a C4 would have required the 1344 lb. Green springs. Both according to the MPC. I would expect from this that the code for the front springs would be different for both cars – but they are not. Both cars have a front spring build sheet code of O. This leads me to believe that both cars used the same springs. I would expect to find Green markings on mine (when I get around to restoring them) even though the MPC indicates it wasn’t necessary. But as a baseline I refer to the MPC. Then I look at the other evidence (build sheets in my case). Then we put it out there for a couple of hundred other readers - what are they are seeing on their cars, and we expand the knowledge base exponentially in a fraction of the time it would take several individuals working part time to accomplish the same task.
There are experts on this forum that have spent near a lifetime acquiring the knowledge they possess. I respect them all immensely (I can’t express in this medium how sincere I am when I say that) But they don’t have to pull all the weight themselves. There’s an un-tapped potential in the network here that can advance knowledge as well. Ford made over 607 thousand mustangs in 1966 alone. How many can any of us say that we’ve seen firsthand that we can draw conclusions from? However many that is, it’s certainly less than every Mustang all of us reading this have seen. IMHO, maybe we can pool that knowledge – one story or excerpt at a time.
Bit by bit…….
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Pete- For whatever it's worth, my Jan '65 Dearborn conv, 6 cyl, with C4 and no PS and no AC has single green stripes on the front springs. These are the original springs. Gary
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Pete I guess that our different opinions stem from if the MPC should eb a starting point> Fifteen years ago I would say yes but currently (JMHO) I don't
Gary thanks for a real world observation - everyone counts ;)
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Jeff,
You and Charles have done so much for me in getting started in my build sheet niche of the hobby. Make no mistake, I'm very gratful.
I think that's it's unfair and unrealistic to burden you both, and the other experts that frequent here, with the multitude of questions that can come up during a typical restoration. You have "trained" me to begin to question the veracity of information by continually asking questions like: which plant, what build date, what options, etc. This is good and it relieves the burden off of you and Charles some. Train us what to look for and how to go about looking for it, and we can have hundreds of eyes out there performing the research.
Lacking a more appropriate starting point I don't see a problem with starting with the MPC. That's just me and my thinking. We still need to valid any assumptions, even this one, with real world evidence. Gary has offered his observations (thanks Gary) and that helps confirm one little piece. But in this case, we need to maybe have a checklist of all the particular variables as utilized by the MPC. Gary has given us the facts about the transmission type, body style, steering type, and AC or not. We might assume from the Dearborn build that his car doesn't have a Thermactor, and the fact that it's a '65 puts it build date before the Feb. 14th change. MPC happens to list that combination as a Green marking, too.
Our philosophical difference aside, how can we help this person get his question answered? What methods can they use to bring out any remnants of paint markings on their existing springs? How do they go about looking for existing evidence? What has the rest of the Concours community seen in regard to this particular application, or front springs in general. And please 66GTCoupe let us know the rest of your options so we can try to get you the best information we can......
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My July 1966 Dearborn Sprint had a single green stripe on the original springs. The car is 6 cyl, automatic, factory air. No PS, PB or thermactor.
Kevin
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Anyone got a pic of these single green Dearborn stipes??? :o)
Thanks,
Tony K.
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Tony:
I'll try to mine posted in the next day or so. Scanner is not working and these were before digital cameras became popular.
Kevin
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Kevin,
Please include your body style and build date so we have all the same specifics that the MPC used.
Maybe others can contribute as well. Even if they have V-8's.
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Anyone got a pic of these single green Dearborn stipes??? :o)
Thanks,
Tony K.
How about these Tony? These are the origianl stripes. Gary
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/MiscellaneousPhotos010.jpg)
(http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab270/bertram65/MiscellaneousPhotos013.jpg)]
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Here is a picture of my green striped spring. The car had a scheduled build date of July 7, 1966 and is a coupe. This was an unmolested 60,000 mile car at time of restoration in the late 90s. Also attaced is the steeing linkage, showing, three paint daubs...blue, pink, and green. (click photo to enlagre)
Kevin
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What methods can they use to bring out any remnants of paint markings on their existing springs? How do they go about looking for existing evidence? ............
If you find anything I try to clean off any oxidation then wet the mark with something like WD40 (will not evaporate as quickly as water) to get a clear look at the original color. Whites, tans and pinks can really get discolored
If there is barely anything left you can use a one time method that can produce some results by spraying the mark with oven cleaner. As the lye eats the paint it expands it with the foaming action. The color will change slightly but you can make out if it was red, orange.... If you try and take a picture you have to time it right and take them as quick as possible before the foam goes away and the color is gone
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If you find anything I try to clean off any oxidation ......
Most folks use Evaporust to remove rust/oxidation. If we soak in this solution as a first step, it won't affect any of the residual paint markings we're looking for, will it?
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Kevin, your Green paint strip is also confirmed by the MPC.
I also have 1966 build sheet codes for front springs of - , [4], [W], [X], and [6].
The [6] was used on an export car with special suspension headed for Sweden - and I cannot pin down an appropriate application just yet. Could be an anomaly.
As I mentioned earlier, the - was used on 6 cylinder cars, and by referring to the MPC looks like it refers to the Green 1344 lb. springs.
The [4], judging by the applications, looks like it refers to the Gray 1490 lb. springs.
The [W] looks like it refers to the Brown 1491 lb. springs.
And the [X], the Red 1413 lb. springs.
This are preliminary findings - and I could use additional build sheet samples to verify same.
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Pete:
What is the MPC refefenced above?
Thanks.
Kevin
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The Master Parts Catalog. In this case, the 1975 Final edition; available on CD from most Mustang suppliers. Pgs. 89 thru 92 section 53.66
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Thanks....