ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: alanmac on June 19, 2022, 04:26:08 PM

Title: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 19, 2022, 04:26:08 PM
My car has the horns on the passengers side with the jumper wire that came on cars with the oil cooler.  Should I leave it as is or wire it per the electrical assembly specs? 

Happy fathers day to all the fathers!

Alan   
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 19, 2022, 05:39:39 PM
My car has the horns on the passengers side with the jumper wire that came on cars with the oil cooler.  Should I leave it as is or wire it per the electrical assembly specs? 

Happy fathers day to all the fathers!

Alan

Guessing that the car in question is the car shown in your signature

- Do you have pictures of the area before you or anyone else rebuilt the car?

- Do you want to be "that guy"?

- It's nice/good that this is one of those details that you can reverse or change at any point (might need to fix a little paint to hide where it was mounted elsewhere) in the future

- If it was originally as you describe do you want to present your car with this factory mistake or build the car as it was meant to be?


Been in this situation dozens of times before and has always come down you your choice and what your willing to present to the public and be happy with. .If you leave it as is be prepared to explain to people who see it that it is not normal and for them not to copy it to their car just because you choose to

Just an opinion and set of questions and things to reflect on
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 20, 2022, 01:56:28 PM
Jeff, thanks.  It was on the car in my description.  I bought this car back in 79.  It was not in good shape, it was completely stock except the wheels.  I ran it for a few months and then did a partial restoration.  I removed all the rust and painted the engine compartment and radiator support with the motor out.  I remember the horn jumper with the two horns on the right side.  I didn't have a wiring diagram at that time so I put it back the same way.  I believe this was a factory mistake based on history and the fact that there was no reason to add the jumper.  I recently went through all my wiring with the ford electrical assembly specs and put everything back to spec.  I wired the horns per the drawing.  Attached is a picture of the jumper.  Alan       
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 20, 2022, 02:23:09 PM
Does or did the car have the support bracket for the two horns (sort of inside the radiator support) on the engine side?
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 20, 2022, 02:47:02 PM
There isn't / wasn't an additional support bracket inside the radiator support. 
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 20, 2022, 06:01:06 PM
was the bracket a loose piece and assembled under the attaching bolts?
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: JohnB on June 21, 2022, 04:59:42 AM
was the bracket a loose piece and assembled under the attaching bolts?

https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.167/xnm.126.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/69_70_horns_v1.0.pdf
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 21, 2022, 12:05:25 PM
Thanks for the interesting information.  My jumper wire has the blue wire with a faint yellow strip.  I didn't know that the Hi and Low were specific to the mounting location. 

Alan 
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: cobrajet_carl on June 21, 2022, 12:17:38 PM
Were there any witness marks in the correct location?
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 21, 2022, 12:54:00 PM
I recently moved the horn to the driver side.  There is one set of marks from a serrated washer on the drivers side inside radiator support.  Paint was under the drivers side washer. The passenger side has a circular rust spot that was underneath the serrated washer.  My car has been garaged and hasn't seen rain, snow in 43 years.    Alan   
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 21, 2022, 01:36:05 PM
There is a small dent in the hood on the passengers side where the HI horn would have been mounted.  The tab on the HI horn is worn down from the hood clearance issue.   
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 21, 2022, 06:37:37 PM
There is a small dent in the hood on the passengers side where the HI horn would have been mounted.  The tab on the HI horn is worn down from the hood clearance issue.

That is odd - would expect more space between the two from the factory
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 22, 2022, 01:03:37 PM
Jeff, Studying electrical assembly manual my horns must have been reversed at some point. They are correct now.  Hi Pitch on RH and Low Pitch on LH. There is plenty of clearance when the horns are in the correct location as per the 70 manual.  Sorry for the previous confusion.  Alan
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: rockhouse66 on June 22, 2022, 01:40:50 PM
There is a small dent in the hood on the passengers side where the HI horn would have been mounted.  The tab on the HI horn is worn down from the hood clearance issue.


This was a running change in late 1969 or 1970.  I think there is documentation on this in one of Anghel Restoration's write-ups.  Ford switched the horns to provide more hood clearance.


EDIT:  Here is the link  https://secureservercdn.net/198.71.233.167/xnm.126.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/69_70_horns_v1.0.pdf 
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 22, 2022, 02:08:34 PM

This was a running change in late 1969 or 1970.  I think there is documentation on this in one of Anghel Restoration's write-ups.  Ford switched the horns to provide more hood clearance.

Thanks for the link. For some reason when I read the description of the one horn making contact I was still thinking one horn on each side

Will have to check my 69 Boss - don't recall the horn making contact with the hood
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 22, 2022, 02:28:21 PM
Jeff,  Just to be clear I didn't add the jumper wire, it was there as a factory mistake.  Let us know how your 69 Boss is configured.  Alan
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 22, 2022, 03:36:33 PM
Jeff,  Just to be clear I didn't add the jumper wire, it was there as a factory mistake.  Let us know how your 69 Boss is configured.  Alan

Understand

As for my 69 Boss its configured like all the others. Both on the passenger side for some reason even though they didn't come with a oil cooler.
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 22, 2022, 05:51:26 PM
My understanding is non oil cooler cars in 69 or 70 had the horns on the Left and Right side.   
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: jwc66k on June 22, 2022, 07:32:23 PM
My understanding is non oil cooler cars in 69 or 70 had the horns on the Left and Right side.
That is shown in the "1970 Mustang Electric Assembly Manual" (AM0033) pages 5 and 6. The "jumper wire" was a Fairlane harness.
If you don't have a set, I strongly suggest you invest in them.
Jim
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 22, 2022, 09:00:57 PM
Thank Jim,  I didn't know the history of the jumper wire.  I have the 70 electrical assembly manual and use it for reference.  Ford made assembly mistakes and this is most likely the case for my car with the jumper wire and the two horns mounted on the RH side.     
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: RocketScientist on June 23, 2022, 03:52:52 AM
My two cents..... build it to what's correct rather than what the masses expect it to be. By conforming you are losing a little piece of history and though you will be hassled by the uninformed, you will be happily surprised by the odd person that will comment that theirs is the same.
Brad
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: rockhouse66 on June 23, 2022, 08:58:16 AM
My two cents..... build it to what's correct rather than what the masses expect it to be. By conforming you are losing a little piece of history and though you will be hassled by the uninformed, you will be happily surprised by the odd person that will comment that theirs is the same.
Brad


I agree.  If you can document how your car was originally built, I favor putting it back that way.  Otherwise the cars become homogenized to conform to rules or expectations and lose some of their identity.  Then again, I don't enter judged events so maybe I would feel differently after defending details like this one.
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 23, 2022, 10:32:22 AM
Thanks for the feedback and information from everyone.  Once again this was a great conversation and good knowledge learning. Funny thing is no one has ever asked about it in 43 years....   Alan 
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: J_Speegle on June 23, 2022, 03:07:21 PM
Agree odd ball discoveries, mistakes and other findings can be difficult to untangle and this is often leads to a  choice that owners face as we've discussed it dozens of times here. Do I restore the car to how the company and plant should have built the car or the way I found it?

Think there is one thing missing though in this particular discussion, I don't think we've established that the car was unrestored when alanmac got the car, unless I missed it somewhere in the discussion. Way too many owners only refer back to "this is the way it was when I purchased the car in the 80's or 90's. Not IMHO a good solid point in the cars history to base a choice on most of the time. If the car was unrestored and if there are not marks or damage to the area around the unused attachment point then that would help

Of course with modifications often another owner will come up with the same solution or purchase the same replacement leading to findings that are unreliable as many of the examples of the cars I have pictures of show.  Findings can work both ways
Title: Re: Build Anomaly
Post by: alanmac on June 27, 2022, 01:05:05 PM
I bought my car in 79. It was unrestored.  It was completely stock with no modifications except Crager mags were added.  There was no evidence of a fender bender.  It was an untouched car that need a restoration.  Alan