ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1966 Mustang => Topic started by: Pete Bush on April 10, 2011, 08:55:46 AM

Title: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 10, 2011, 08:55:46 AM
I’m still in the research and parts acquisition mode for my ’66 Sprint Metuchen-built convertible.

My convertible is supposed to have a white power top according to the build sheet. I have a switch on the dash and the wire that runs along the driver’s side to the trunk. But all the parts in the trunk are missing – no top motor, lift cylinders, hoses, fuse, etc.
I came across the top motor pictured below the other day. It’s supposed to have come from a ’66 6-cylinder, but I cannot confirm the part number because I cannot seem to locate the appropriate reference in the MPC. Also, I have no reference on what this stuff looks like or how it hooks up in the trunk.

I could use some help with the identification of the correct parts, finishes, and installation of same.

Pete
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: aaatp on April 10, 2011, 09:35:12 AM
Pete: I just looked at the pump motor from my 66 convertible, it has the same part number as the one you have pictured, C5AF-15667-A1. There is also a metal bracket that the pump is secured to that is also affixed to the car, behind the rear seat NPD has just about everything you would need to make it all work. It doesn't appear they have the mounting bracket for the pump.

John
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: bryancobb on April 10, 2011, 09:44:00 AM
Hey Pete,

I don't think that one is like mine.  I'll take a couple of pics today for you.  It's still in the car.  Maybe I can get some closeups?
In the meantime, look at these.  It's mine, last year.  I was asking questions about another topic.

First picture    http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=897.msg4637#msg4637   First picture

Fifth picture   http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=892.msg4586#msg4586    Fifth picture
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 11, 2011, 06:48:32 AM
Thanks for the replies aaatp & Bryan,

I found a website that talks a little about the top motors here:
http://www.topmotorrepair.com/
Look under the section Mustang & FoMoCo

The motor I have found looks like version #2. Would the correct application have a side or end fill? I did notice that the finish of the pump differs from the pictures there. The motor I found doesn't have that gold-tone finish.

Bryan,
Looks like there were at least two hose routing patterns. I'll pull my back seat later and see if I can determine which one my vert used.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 11, 2011, 07:29:55 AM
There are four screw holes about 9/16" down from the top shelf-edge. Looks to be consistent with Dave's (Twilight65) hose routing. No brackets for the hoses. Do they make replacements? Didn't see a mention of them at NPD.

Mine is a Metuchen build like yours Bryan. But the buck tag has a build date of June 21. I guess they changed the hose routing pattern sometime after yours was built.

It does have the motor bracket fastened to the trunk floor, though.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: bryancobb on April 11, 2011, 08:39:48 AM
Yep, 2 hose routings.  Should be easy to determine since clip holes will be there.

Here's some closeup shots of my motor.   MAR 1966 Metuchen.

(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/motor1.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/motor3.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/motor2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 11, 2011, 09:29:50 PM
Thanks, Bryan, that was a big help!

Your motor looks identical to the one I just bought. The first photo is a little fuzzy and it's difficult to make out the numbers. If it's not too much trouble perhaps you can just include them in a post/reply?

It looks like a "G" stamped near the pump outlet fitting. Not likely a date code for a March car. Any idea what it references? Mine looks more like an "I". I have to get rid of some of the rust to get a better view of the rest of the numbers.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: bryancobb on April 12, 2011, 06:58:26 AM
Photobucket...DOWN.  Picture later.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 12, 2011, 08:03:11 PM
Pete, here's photos of my May 66 Sprint convertible pump. Has a "6E" stamped into the pump body with a "T" close by.

Dave

(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10066.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10068.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10065.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10069.jpg)
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 12, 2011, 08:53:53 PM
Thanks, Dave.

Using your photos as a guide, I cleaned some crude and tried looking for a date code on the pump I bought. Found the characters in the photo below. If I figure on using the same order of characters as your pump (number then letter), it looks like it could be a 9F (if you read it upside-down).

The other photo is a shot of the bare back seat area.

Anyone have some detailed photos of a lift cylinder?
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 12, 2011, 09:33:57 PM
Pete, I have some pics of the cylinders I will post later tonite.

Dave
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: bryancobb on April 13, 2011, 07:02:24 AM
Pete,
Here's a closeup.  MAR 16, 66, Metuchen.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/motor4-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 13, 2011, 07:23:56 AM
Thanks, Bryan.

In comparing your numbers to Dave's, I see that his has a "Y 5" while yours has a "X 12". Any ideas of the significance?

Mine is badly rusted in that area, but I can just about make out a "Y 5" on my pump.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 13, 2011, 03:45:48 PM
In the attached illustration, my car is missing items (K) & (L). Everything else that's needed to hook up a lift cylinder looks to be available thru NPD. Any ideas on where I can get the needed plates and bolts?
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 13, 2011, 05:52:25 PM
Pete here is pictures of one of my cylinders. Don't see any markings on them unless under the dirt at top.

Dave

(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10076-1.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10077-2.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/SDC10078-2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 13, 2011, 08:21:43 PM
Thanks, Dave.

Looks like the replacement cylinders look very similar to the originals.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 17, 2011, 08:47:52 AM
Received a second top motor yesterday (pictures below). Between the two, I can select the best parts to make one good one.

The curious thing is the date code highlighted in the yellow box. Instead of reading 6E like Dave's, it reads E6. The characters are transposed.

It also looks like the remnants of a number stamp on the bottom of the bracket (motor side). It's difficult to tell, but it could be the same as Dave's 16511 stamp.

Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 20, 2011, 07:51:09 PM
Looks like my vert is also missing the junction block that attaches to the fender by the starter solenoid. Does anyone have any pictures of the hook-up?
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 20, 2011, 09:02:54 PM
Pete,
Here's a picture of mine.  I also rebuilt my block. Have attached that pic also.

Dave

(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/th_SDC10016-1.jpg) (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/?action=view&current=SDC10016-1.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/th_DavesrebuiltJunctionBlock.jpg) (http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv8/dkcain1/?action=view&current=DavesrebuiltJunctionBlock.jpg)
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 20, 2011, 09:30:36 PM
Thanks, Dave.

Is the paper formed the way it was on the original? Looks slightly different than the repos.

Is that black tape at the top of the fusible link? Or a tag of some sort?

Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 20, 2011, 10:32:16 PM
Pete,
The paper is correct. There was a complete thread(see below)on it when I was trying to restore mine. Pete Morgan had a picture of a NOS one. As to the fusible link, that was remnants of the original wire tag.

Dave



http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=747.msg4101#msg4101
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Pete Bush on April 21, 2011, 06:49:42 AM
Excellent information there.

That's exactly what my PO did; attached the fusible link directly to the top wire and taped it up. No junction block.

I was thinking about buying the repo junction block and re-forming the paper to conform to your picture, Dave. But when I compare the two side by side, the repo doesn't look long enough to accomplish the necessary bends. If that happens to be the case, is there a source to by a small piece of the appropriate paper?

Pete
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on April 21, 2011, 04:59:32 PM
Pete,
I have paper if you need it and the Dims. to bend it to.
Dave
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: bryancobb on January 02, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
Dave! 
How much would you charge me to supply me a piece big enough to make one?
And the dimension drawing, of course.

BC
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: Twilight65 on January 02, 2012, 12:35:32 PM
Bryan, sent you a PM.
Dave
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: 66RavenGTCoupeAgain on June 02, 2018, 09:58:06 PM
Hi Guys,
Just a quick slightly off topic question if I may?
Am I able to bench test my motor by just hooking it up to a battery? I understand that the black terminal is negative and the other two yellow and red ones are up and down. When I say "bench" test, Im kind of lying as the motor is in the car but not all of the wiring is done yet so I would like to test and prime it before I go any further.
Would connecting a battery directly to the plug that comes off of the pump do any damage?
Also, if I could ask what fluid is recommended as I have read that some are saying brake fluid and others transmission fluid? (Brand/Type?)
Thanks in advance,
Dan.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: CharlesTurner on June 02, 2018, 11:22:11 PM
If you just want to tap the wires to the battery to see if anything happens, that's fine.  Don't run the pump for an extended period without fluid.
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: jwc66k on June 03, 2018, 12:16:17 AM
Am I able to bench test my motor by just hooking it up to a battery? I understand that the black terminal is negative and the other two yellow and red ones are up and down.
Yes, yes and yes,
Would connecting a battery directly to the plug that comes off of the pump do any damage?
I make up "jumper" wires, an alligator clip at each end, to do that. As Charles stated, a short connection of 2 or 3 seconds should not cause any problems.
Also, if I could ask what fluid is recommended as I have read that some are saying brake fluid and others transmission fluid? (Brand/Type?)
AT fluid is recommended, type F (for Ford). Almost any major brand is fine.
If you haven't done so yet, get a set of 66 Mustang Assembly Manuals. To "complete" the set, a "64 1/2-65 Chassis Manual" and a "64 1/2-65 Weld and Sealant Manual" should be considered.
Jim
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: NEFaurora on June 03, 2018, 04:49:23 PM

"AT fluid is recommended, type F (for Ford). "

Not any more.  Actually, This has changed a long time ago.  Type "F" is a caustic Fluid and has been found to make rubber seals and especially the plastic hydraulic lines extremely brittle over time and accelerates age and cracking of the pump seals and pump plastic fluid lines.  It was found that the Dexron-Mercon type fluid did not do this, so that is what is recommended not only for today's convertible top pumps, but for old Ford Top pumps and lines as well.  Go with Dexron-Mercon instead, because it's better stuff and it will be much nicer to your pump seals and fluid lines.  If you still want to use "TYPE F" for your Tranny, go ahead...but don't use it for your convertible top pump and lines.

:o)

Tony K.

Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: jwc66k on June 04, 2018, 12:46:20 PM
"AT fluid is recommended, type F (for Ford). "
Type "F" is a caustic Fluid and has been found to make rubber seals and especially the plastic hydraulic lines extremely brittle over time and accelerates age and cracking of the pump seals and pump plastic fluid lines.
I did not know that. My only convertible did not have a power top.
Jim
Title: Re: 1966 Convertible Top Motor, Lifts, & Hardware
Post by: NEFaurora on June 05, 2018, 12:30:09 AM

Hey, That looks a lot like Sid and Mart Krofft's "Wonderbug"  Memba' Him??  Is that where he's been hiding all these years???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV00f0K4yJw

and here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHj_HTJP-pI

:o)

Tony K.