ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: 67gta289 on September 09, 2015, 02:21:30 PM
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NOTE: This thread originally contained both under hood and trunk lights but after five pages became difficult to follow the two combined inner threads that developed. Because of this on Oct 22, 2023 and is here https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11981.0 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11981.0) The first 39 posts in this thread are from that original thread.
A few more pics of the trunk light
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Does the wire from the trunk light pigtail into the trunk wiring on the driver side....or does it run under the driver door sill plate and connect somewhere forward from there?...to hot wire I assume, since it needs to be powered all the time.
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The one I have from an early Dearborn car is a long single conductor wire from the door jamb area. Black wire not sure if there is a stripe. Has a woven protector on the wire. Ran under drivers side door sill plate and over wheel well. A bullet connector to the single wire mounted to the deck lid. Connection in the air below the trunk gutter drivers side. Hope this makes sense.
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I'll look for the wire coming into the trunk for the light. I assume it enters the trunk through the same opening as the tail light wiring. If I don't see it, I'll remove the driver door sill plate and look.
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Correct. The ones I've seen can over the wheel well with the tail light harness. The trunk wire had a narrow cloth tape band to attach it to the tail light harness, then split off to go up to the decklid.
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My 67 did not originally have the trunk light Option. However, as mentioned above, the wire with a female bullet connector runs over the wheel well, next to the taillight harness. I have attached a picture for your info.
I have also attached a picture of my Hood Light wire, socket and fuse assembly. It is Part # C7ZZ-15702-A (the bracket is stamped C7ZB-15702-A).
Also attached is a picture of my NOS Trunk Light assembly that I am going to use. It is Part # C7ZZ-13A756-A (the bracket is stamped C7ZB-13A756-A).
Finally, I do have two used Cougar Trunk Lights, one with original wiring (51" long), and bullet connector, and one with a replacement wire and bullet connector. the mercury switches on both work fine. These are identical to the Mustang ones except the brackets are stamped C7WB-13A756-A. If interested, send PM.
Bob
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Some of these have been posted in an earlier thread
All San Jose examples
Ignore the body color on the wire - repainted car
Wire retainer
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/4/6-150915164855.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-100714183056.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-100714182900.jpeg)
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My 67 did not originally have the trunk light Option. However, as mentioned above, the wire with a female bullet connector runs over the wheel well, next to the taillight harness. I have attached a picture for your info.
I have also attached a picture of my Hood Light wire, socket and fuse assembly. It is Part # C7ZZ-15702-A (the bracket is stamped C7ZB-15702-A).
Also attached is a picture of my NOS Trunk Light assembly that I am going to use. It is Part # C7ZZ-13A756-A (the bracket is stamped C7ZB-13A756-A).
Finally, I do have two used Cougar Trunk Lights, one with original wiring (51" long), and bullet connector, and one with a replacement wire and bullet connector. the mercury switches on both work fine. These are identical to the Mustang ones except the brackets are stamped C7WB-13A756-A. If interested, send PM.
Bob
So, was the trunk light wire already there even though the light wasn't original to your car, or did you run one for the light?
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No, I did not add the wire. It was just sitting there in the wheel well with the female bullet connector, waiting for the luggage compartment light (or reel light or accessory trunk light) to be attached.
Bob
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No, I did not add the wire. It was just sitting there in the wheel well with the female bullet connector, waiting for the luggage compartment light (or reel light or accessory trunk light) to be attached.
+1
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If your vehicle didn't come with the courtesy lamp group, you don't have the wire. I sent my original hood lamp and trunk courtesy lamp feed wire that runs to the trunk to Alloy Metal Products, that's why they are now available. He needed original examples, and they are relatively scarce.
The original trunk lamp courtesy feed wire is not part of the tail lamp harness, but an individual lead that is cloth taped about every 16" to the tail lamp harness.
-Keith
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Keith : I think we need to "step back" and take a little more detailed look in regard to the Trunk Light wire. While I've seen many Fastbacks and Coupes, I've never documented the Trunk Light Wire occurrences. I can speak for my January Dearborn Convertible however. As everyone knows, the Convertibles did not have Dome Lights, so they were furnished "Standard" with the two under dash mounted Courtesy Lights. Thus, I believe, this is why my car has the Factory wire for the Trunk Light, which is, as you noted, a separate wire cloth taped to the taillight harness. Thus I believe that your statement might have been better if it were said "if your car is a Coupe or Fastback and you don't have the Courtesy Light Option, then you won't have the wire for the Trunk Light". Maybe we can get some additional feedback from Coupe, Fastback and Convertible owners to confirm this. Sounds like it's definitely an item for further investigation.
Bob
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I was under the impression that both the trunk and under hood courtesy light harnesses were not included in vehicles without those options. However, my data set is small. My contribution will be three vehicles:
1. 7R02C156xxx did not have the option, and does not have the wires.
2. 7T01C144xxx did not have the option, and does not have the wires.
3. 7F01C129xxx had the option, and had the wires.
Here are some pictures of the harness that I harvested from 7F01C129xxx
In the first picture, I have highlighted in red the separate, but parallel, wire for the trunk light. It is literally a single wire, with protective sleeve, that runs the distance.
Yes, that is my understanding. If the option was ordered, only then the wire would be present. Bob points out an interesting observation though. His CONVERTIBLE had the wire already in place, however his car was NOT equipped with the trunk lamp.
I seem to recall in another thread that the convertible TAILIGHT harness was different than the Coupe/Fastbacks and Alloy Metal reproduction harnesses are listed as available similarly. Recollection tells me that a MPC image shared elsewhere in another thread, didn't help to clarify why a convertible would be different. It is clear to me that the taillight harness difference would exist for "With Low Fuel" or "Without Low Fuel", but I didn't understand why a convertible used different taillight harnesses than the others (maybe the cost of including just one extra wire for a dome light? That alone didn't really add up). My assumptions at that time were that the convertible DID NOT NEED A FEED WIRE FOR A DOME LIGHT and the other two did so this simply saved a few pennies in production costs. Possibly, as Bob has pointed out already, there is a little more here to discover about why there would be this extra wire on some cars (as Jeff also seemed to be confirming) that was NOT USED on certain applications.
Bob, on your convertible (or Marty, since you also have a convertible), Is your 12v supply wire for the trunk light taped separately onto the taillight harness like the pictures John just shared above and like every other example discussed to date on this subject? If the trunk light wire is taped into the taillight harness (read as NOT taped ONTO the harness) maybe this helps some. Just a possibility that we can rule in or rule out here. The assembly manuals do not detail any differences for a convertible, the only images shown demonstrate the design of the convertible wiring layout as being identical to the coupes.
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Yes, that is my understanding. If the option was ordered, only then the wire would be present. Bob points out an interesting observation though. His CONVERTIBLE had the wire already in place, however his car was NOT equipped with the trunk lamp.
I did catch that, and the theory is valid. I agree that we need more samples.
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It has been my experience that there was a standard harness and a optional one that had all of the options available in it. It also is a possibility that if the assembly line was out of the standard version the optional one was used. Our 11-04-66 GTA convertible has the trunk light wire taped to the tail light harness. Our car is a early car and in latter cars the trunk light harness may have been incorporated in to the taillight harness.
Marty
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Unfortunately, at least until Spring, I can't address whether the Trunk Light wire is taped ONTO, or INTO the taillight harness. My '67 is hibernating for the Winter at its Southern Colorado Vacation/ Retirement house, almost 700 miles away. I will check out the remainder of the harness when we go back and post my findings.
For now, there are a couple of things that I can address. The trunk light wire is taped TO the taillight harness at the front of the rear inner fender well. In front of that, I'll need to check later. My wire is black, and appears to have a heavy insulation on it; it does not appear to have the woven cloth covering that John's example has (although it could be missing on my exposed wire and may show up when I investigate the complete harness). Marty, what is your wire like ?
Finally, and this is kind of interesting, in John's example from the 7F01C129xxx, note that the end has both the female bullet connector for the wire from the Trunk Light socket, and a male bullet pigtail. Mine only has the female bullet connector. What about yours Marty ?
As noted before, the Assembly Manual isn't of much help here. It does, however, show the wire as being covered with the woven cloth and taped every 12", but does not show any kind of connector, much less pigtails.
Initially, I thought this might be a Plant variation, but John's example is from Dearborn, which is where mine was built. So that leaves a possible "early versus late possibility. Mine was built 01/31/67, which is still considered early (pre 02/02/67). John, do you know the build date on the harness from the 7F01C129xxx ? And Marty, at which Plant was yours built ?
I guess that's about all I can "muddy up" for now.
Bob
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My 11-04-66 SJ convertible has the single end with a black wire with the cloth braid.
Marty
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I did catch that, and the theory is valid. I agree that we need more samples.
Feb 7th Dearborn Conv example, no trunk light. It doesn't have the under hood light or Courtesy Light option.
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Like Bob's car, my Feb 7th Dearborn Conv has the wire but no trunk light. It doesn't have the under hood light or Courtesy Light option.
That is not the trunk light wire. Black with blue stripe is the courtesy light circuit.
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... in John's example from the 7F01C129xxx, note that the end has both the female bullet connector for the wire from the Trunk Light socket, and a male bullet pigtail. Mine only has the female bullet connector.
Bob
Bob M., Is it possible you are confusing the FRONT connectors with the REAR connection?
The front connectors are both a male and female, only at the FRONT end of this option's "single-wire" harness. The male bullet is connected to the 12v dome lamp circuit (under the dash, near the A-pillar) into the underdash (green/yellow) connector of the underdash harness. The "female" connector is then simply repeated to leave the otherwise "single" under-dash harbness connector, available for other/another option(s) (e.g. Tilt-away column?).
The REAR connector on John's example is ONLY a female bullet connector. In the overview picture John provided (with the red circles), this may be a little difficult to see, but near the rear connector, shown as being 5 inches away from the end of the female bullet connector, is the clip (that John gratiously provided a few close-up shots of with the tape measure) and that clip holds that trunk light wire to the trunk lid, near the trunk hinge.
I also think that in both Roster's convertible & Bob's convertible, that this wire that is present as a part of the tailight harness like the(*edit, added text: black/blue) one Rodster's picture looks to me as being, that it would(*edited)NOT be long enough to reach loosely and yet be capable to tuck it into the hole that is in the lower left side of the trunk lid. I say this because if indeed this wire is the optional trunk light wire with a 12v 'constant' supply, that both Bob, and now Rod have mentioned, that I find it unlikely that Ford would have provided such a long section of wire simply "stubbed off", at least without taping it down to the tailight harness if NOT used. Something here is NOT adding up yet in my way of thinking.
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As I said above the black with blue stripe wire is not a trunk light wire, it used to power the courtesy-dome light in a coupe and not used in a convertible.
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As I said above the black with blue stripe wire is not a trunk light wire, it used to power the courtesy-dome light in a coupe and not used in a convertible.
Sorry for confusion, I just re-read what I wrote earlier and my typing didn't reflect my thoughts (it was very early this morning). I edited my response to better match my actual thoughts.
It looks like I'm with you Marty, that wire Rod posted looks black with a blue tracer but I now wonder if Bob M.'s wire is like Rod's wire. Functionally, it could possibly be used (though it might need connected differently up front) but Concours use of a black/blue wire for a trunk light would be inaccurate.
Richard
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Richard : I believe you are absolutely correct ! I went back and looked at John's pictures, and I was looking at the front end instead of the rear. Good catch. I'll blame that on my being left handed and looking at things "backwards". Thanks for straightening things out. I feel better now about that which I have now.
Bob
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As I said above the black with blue stripe wire is not a trunk light wire, it used to power the courtesy-dome light in a coupe and not used in a convertible.
Got it now I think. ;) Sorry for the confusion, I modified my previous post so it's is just an example of what is found on a Dearborn conv without the option.
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Richard : Apparently with both sent our most recent replies at the same time, so I didn't see yours until after I posted mine.
I too, wondered about my wire ,whether it was solid black, or black with a blue stripe like "rods". Of course the pictures I have don't clearly show one way or the other. Fortunately, my wife is still at our Colorado place, where my '67 is. When I talk with her today, I'll specifically have her check this, and "report back" later. Do I dare say "great minds think alike" ?
Bob
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Richard : Yes, the wire over my wheel well is, in fact, just like rod's; Black with a Blue stripe (dome light, courtesy lights, etc). So, based on that, it appears that the same harness was used for coupes, fastbacks and convertibles.; the only difference being that on convertibles, the wire wasn't hooked up to anything, it just lay there. Make sense ?
This makes me curious then;
John : on your "layout" picture of the whole harness, end to end, the wire that has a connector (and is not circled in red) and looks like it comes out of the harness at the same point as the "correct" trunk light wire, is it Black with a Blue stripe ? I'd be surprised if it's not.
Thanks to all for getting to the bottom of this issue.
Bob
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I brought some images of the trunk & hood light option taken from Jeff's recent post of a late build NJ 67 Unrestored, low mileage GT. They may "shed some light" ;) onto a few more details...
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418202208.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418201930.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418201836.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418201902.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418201940.jpeg)
A great look at the clips typically found on the RH strut brace
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/10/6-010418201853.jpeg)
NOTE: Being a "LATE BUILD", you may notice, the bottom of the hood has NO GROMMET (nor at the top but not in images) and the rolled edges in the hole(s) where the wire penetrates the hood inner structure. Discussed in other threads, this "rolled edge" is a feature found on all 68 hoods and the later 67 hoods. (Very early 67 hoods actually had NO HOLE and any turn signal lamp or underhood lamp wiring did not penetrate the hood but was instead affixed to the hood reinforcement structure with similar (same) clips as the mid-year hood uses across the upper reinforcement surrounding the turn signal lamp area (see pictures earlier in this thread of these clips)
Also, another example of the (metal?) clips used to secure the wiring to the right hand shock tower brace.
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And then there is the trunk
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Closest reproduction I found in a short time looking is AMK. Looking at page 144 of the AMK catalog (bottom left), item B-10723 gets you a pair for $4
So, is it typical to find 2 or typical to have 3 on an original car?
*typo correction 9/8/22
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Richard, that looks like a good match. The number 372303 I found used on the 65 Mustang in the exact same place, qty 2, on the attached drawing. I found it used in four different wiring related applications in the 60-68 MPC, with only the same 65 Mustang reference, the others were other vehicle types.
The 65 drawing has the -S suffix, but the same application in the 68 MPC was the -100. I found the -S as part of a back up lamp kit for a 63 Falcon.
Based on what I've seen for this application, I would get the -S. As for quantity, the car that I stripped only had one, but that is obviously not enough. The 65 drawing shows 2, the low mile NJ car had 3. Certainly we should be able to get 1 or more offerings on this.
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The Electrical Assembly Manual calls for 3 - 379061-S clips. However, it looks like once again we are faced with a hardware number that is an Engineering number as it doesn't appear in any of the Standard and Utility Parts books, or in either AMK's Guide to Fasteners Book, or their online catalog. However, part # 379061-S does show in their hard copy products catalog - but, it is a plastic clip ??
Bob
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The Electrical Assembly Manual calls for 3 - 379061-S clips. However, it looks like once again we are faced with a hardware number that is
an Engineering number as it doesn't appear in any of the Standard and Utility Parts books,
A point of reference. part number 379061-S is an "engineering" number only because someone in engineering reserved that number for use as a "standard" hardware part. It does not appear in available documentation because it was not used universally but was used in special cases for wire retention from 65 thru 68.
However, part # 379061-S does show in their hard copy products catalog - but, it is a plastic clip ??
You should have some faith and confidence in the research that Max at AMK has put into his products. Yes it is plastic.
Jim
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The MPC explicitly lists the -S and -S100 (rubber coating) for this part as being available. I’m leaning towards the -S based on what I’ve seen in person and in pictures of largely original unrestored cars.
I looked at the assembly manual and determined that in this case it was so off the mark for the 67, and perhaps 68, that I would dismiss it for the part in question. The route and quantity of clips looks good.
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The MPC explicitly lists the -S and -S100 (rubber coating) for this part as being available. I’m leaning towards the -S based on what I’ve seen in person and in pictures of largely original unrestored cars.
+1
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+1 I didn't mean to imply that the clip should be the plastic clip, just that it is what was sown in the assembly manual. I personally, have never seen, or seen a picture of, anything but the uncoated metal, clip that John previously described.
Bob
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Is yours a NJ 67? Not saying they are different but can't at the moment confirm that they are the same. Or the same number or location ;)
Returning a little late to this discussion with a delayed reply; my car is a SJ 67 (Nov 66). Can it be said at this point that these clips were used on 67 cars from all three plants?
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As this thread was started about 7 years ago, a lot has occurred since then in terms of revelations, clarifications, etc. This is especially true in regard to the Factory Luggage Compartment Lamp. I thought it would be a good idea to clarify this for future readers.
The Factory Luggage compartment Light was only available as part of the ?Courtesy Light Group Factory Option?. It was not a ?stand alone? Option.
The Black with Blue stripe wire with the female bullet connector which ran over the wheel well in the luggage compartment that I posted early in the thread, is not correct for the Factory Luggage Compartment Light. The correct wiring should be as John (67gta289) noted early in the thread, and run from the ?hot? side of the courtesy light switch, run under the sill plate, and into the Trunk. I have attached a copy from the Factory Electrical Assembly Manual that shows the correct routing. Also, note that this wire is Green with a Yellow Stripe.
The Black with Blue Stripe wire that I mistakenly implied was for the Factory Luggage Compartment Light, is actually a pigtail from the Taillight Wiring Harness (only is ?hot? when the Parking Lights are on), and is shown in the Instructions for the Accessory Trunk Light (either fixed type or retractable removable type) to feed power to it.
Hope this helps clarify the Factory Luggage Compartment Lamp connections.
Bob
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The Black with Blue Stripe wire that I mistakenly implied was for the Factory Luggage Compartment Light, is actually a pigtail from the Taillight Wiring Harness (only is ?hot? when the Parking Lights are on), and is shown in the Instructions for the Accessory Trunk Light (either fixed type or retractable removable type) to feed power to it.
Ummm, I don't think so. Black/blue stripe is switched courtesy lights, controlled by door jamb or headlight switch turned all the way past the detent while the switch knob is pulled. The female bullet is for the sail panel courtesy lights found in fastbacks; not sure about coupes, but definitely not used in convertibles.
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Randy : You are of course correct ; a Black wire with a Blue stripe would not be a Taillight wire, but a Courtesy Light wire. However, don't let my poor memory on this over shadow the point I was trying to make ; this Black wire with the Blue stripe is not for the factory trunk light.
As for why that is in my Convertible, that is a good question ; it has always been there, and was not added. It would seem odd that Ford used the same harness that included that wire in both Fastbacks and Convertibles ? The only explanation might be "It's a Ford.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Bob
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Randy : You are of course correct ...
...Thanks for pointing that out.
Bob
Yeah...I was triggered inside to respond (from memory too) but learned to not always trust my memory without documentation (especially in such a post that becomes a form of history).
Regarding the black and blue female bullet connector in the rear quarter panel area, of some harnesses, a fastback and coupe (standard interior models) requires that female bullet connection for the rear courtesy lights (fastback) or dome light (standard interior coupe). Convertibles do not need a connector in this location. I see no point why a fastback/coupe taillight harness couldn't function correctly on a convertible so is it possible that the assemblyline coupe/fastback harness was also installed onto some convertible applications? Interesting to note, some vendors do not (or did not) have this correlation correct. I've not reviewed the 67-only or later MPC's for availability in the Service World but that could be a place a person might look for a few more clues about these tailight harness differences.