ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: jackhodges on August 10, 2024, 08:55:57 AM
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I have a 64.5 Dearborn convertible with a 260. Is the single exhaust w/o resonator welded or clamped? I'm being told that certain areas of the pipes (tail pipe to muffler and y pipe to intermediate) were welded. There are only three joints and the build sheets show three clamps.
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Mustang exhaust systems were both welded and clamped, welded more for assembly line speed, clamped for service. You can see drawing in this forum's library section under general topic "ConcoursMustang.com Official 65 Mustang Articles List" (it includes 64) using the specific topic "1965-72 Ford Master Parts Catalog" (the slang name, it's real title is "Ford Car Parts") in go to the exhaust section. Another source is the "1964 1/2-65 Mustang Chassis Assembly Manual" (AM0005 pg 33, available from most Mustang parts houses) which is a bit more accurate (most of the time).
(My intent is to point you in the right direction for answers to your questions so in the future you can be better informed.)
Jim
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Typically 3 pieces for single exhaust... the Y pipe, intermediate pipe (with or without resonator), then the muffler with the tail pipe welded on. Clamps at connections.
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Typically 3 pieces for single exhaust... the Y pipe, intermediate pipe (with or without resonator), then the muffler with the tail pipe welded on. Clamps at connections.
True. But without the "64-65 Chassis Assembly Manual" drawing, or "Ford Car Parts" (the infamous MPC), you don't know what mounting hardware is used, what the base number for the clamps are, or torquing requirements.
Jim
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True. But without the "64-65 Chassis Assembly Manual" drawing, or "Ford Car Parts" (the infamous MPC), you don't know what mounting hardware is used, what the base number for the clamps are, or torquing requirements.
Jim
Can't say I've ever cared to look up or even consider the torquing specs of exhaust clamps. :) And of course the OP focused on the pipe configuration though related details can be helpful for many. Also if reusing original clamps part numbers aren't always helpful IMHO
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Can't say I've ever cared to look up or even consider the torquing specs of exhaust clamps. :) And of course the OP focused on the pipe configuration though related details can be helpful for many. Also if reusing original clamps part numbers aren't always helpful IMHO
I assumed that the original post was about installing a compete exhaust system. It's been my experience that, after almost 60 years, exhaust clamps are basically unusable - you are going to need new ones. Doing half a "restoration" is not a good idea. What the MPC shows is three identical clamps. That's sort of important. The Ford service numbers used are, unfortunately, calling out a 1971 service part number. The alternative is to use a Mustang store's offerings.
As to torque spec, there isn't any stated, except in the service manual.
Jim
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I have a 64.5 Dearborn convertible with a 260. Is the single exhaust w/o resonator welded or clamped? I'm being told that certain areas of the pipes (tail pipe to muffler and y pipe to intermediate) were welded. There are only three joints and the build sheets show three clamps.
As faar as the term "buildsheets" what are you referring to? Could it be the Master Parts Catalog instead and if so a word of warning.Items included in them don't always represent how the cars were originally built but instead what replacement parts were available at the time of printing the books
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I was referencing page 33 out of the assembly manual. I have since found that there seems to be a misprint in the 1964.5-1965 Ford Mustang Assembly Manual on page 33, Installation-Exhaust System. Where the "Y" pipe connects to the mid-section pipe, there is a reference to the clamp that states: 5252 ASSY. 3 REQD. Well with only 3 pipe joints, I assumed that all joints were clamped.
After 2 MCA shows, I kept being told that "some" of the joints were welded. More research and a closer look reveal, although the other two (2) clamped joints (Y pipe and Muffler "in" port) are shown and described, there is no detail view of the tailpipe joint at the muffler (out port) on that page. So, I can deduce that there is a misprint, the tailpipe is the joint that gets welded and thus, only 2 each 5252 clamp assemblies are required.
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I am not familiar with the early Mustangs, but is there a need for a clamp on the tailpipe at the tailpipe hanger? If so, is that the location of the third clamp, or is it like the 1969 and up a band clamp?
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I was referencing page 33 out of the assembly manual. I have since found that there seems to be a misprint in the 1964.5-1965 Ford Mustang Assembly Manual on page 33, Installation-Exhaust System. Where the "Y" pipe connects to the mid-section pipe, there is a reference to the clamp that states: 5252 ASSY. 3 REQD. Well with only 3 pipe joints, I assumed that all joints were clamped.
After 2 MCA shows, I kept being told that "some" of the joints were welded. More research and a closer look reveal, although the other two (2) clamped joints (Y pipe and Muffler "in" port) are shown and described, there is no detail view of the tailpipe joint at the muffler (out port) on that page. So, I can deduce that there is a misprint, the tailpipe is the joint that gets welded and thus, only 2 each 5252 clamp assemblies are required.
I interpret the three to include the exhaust pipe into the muffler and the exhaust pipe out. See View W".
Jim
PS: "Ford Car Parts" (the infamous MPC) 75 ed, section 52.65 page 20, shows three replacement clamps (service stock number D1AZ-5A231-C). Tell that to the MCA.
Jim
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Thought I had made a post but maybe I didn't press post ???
Looking at what is left of original systems on unrestored cars can be a little difficult sine the exhaust systems are often the first to go - at least the muffler. The replacement of just the muffler adds an additional joint to the factory system since the tail pipe was not included in all but the very early parts that were rerouted to the service parts at the time or the year following the cars production. Have a few pictures of this just have to figure out where they are stored and I will post them when I find the,
Also it gets a bit confusing give all the running changes in the exhaust systems made during that first production "year".
Looking at my pictures I see them arranged as One at the Y pipe to intermediate pipe - intermediate pipe to muffler and if it counts in the system a to hang e the assemble at the rear over the rear end. One end of the muffler was supported by a rubber strap attached to the frame rail and directly to the muffler on that end while the other end had a rubber strap attached to the intermediate pipe where it bends right at the top edge. Believe there is a picture of this detail in the pictures of Mikes really great unrestored car in the Picture section of the site. Unfortunately that car had the muffler replaced so an additional clamp joint (that are very obvious) was added during the cutting and fitting process
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Assembly line single exhaust mufflers for at least 65-66 had a welded tail pipe. Some of the later Ford replacement mufflers were more narrow in length and required extensions with additional clamps.
There's a band clamp on the RH side that attaches to a frame rail hanger, that holds the exhaust up. I've seen regular exhaust pipe clamps used there also. Maybe that's the 3rd clamp referred to in the early assembly diagram.
Attaching a couple pics of an assembly line muffler.
Couple pics of a 64.5 April car I restored showing the RH hanger:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-ford-mustang-321/
Pics 215 and 255 (tried to link direct and didn't seem to work)
Welded the tail pipe on that one, although it doesn't look exactly like an original.
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Assembly line single exhaust mufflers for at least 65-66 had a welded tail pipe. Some of the later Ford replacement mufflers were more narrow in length and required extensions with additional clamps.
There's a band clamp on the RH side that attaches to a frame rail hanger, that holds the exhaust up. I've seen regular exhaust pipe clamps used there also. Maybe that's the 3rd clamp referred to in the early assembly diagram............
Couple pics of a 64.5 April car I restored showing the RH hanger:.........
Pics 215 and 255 (tried to link direct and didn't seem to work)
Just an assist ;)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-190824000609-205441285.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-190824000609-205441921.jpeg)
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Thank you for the great pictures, Jeff! I thought this would be the end result. I was hesitant to have anything welded until I was absolutely sure of what to have welded. Nothing worse than trying to undo a weld that was in the wrong place, or in this case on the wrong pipe joint....
Thanks a million!
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Thank you for the great pictures, Jeff! I thought this would be the end result.................
Not my pictures I just had them from the link Charles mentioned and placed them here on the site. Backs up what he originally posted in reply #2 ;)
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Not my pictures I just had them from the link Charles mentioned and placed them here on the site. Backs up what he originally posted in reply #2 ;)
But it's "only" pictures. It that pipe really welded? Have you Ford documentation to back up the welded muffler and pipe?
Well I do.
These Ford drawings are from "1968 Ford Car Parts" (aka MPC).
The 1975 edition shows different service methods and parts.
The second picture - Ref Text Section 52 page 10 NOTE 3 - Supplied In Muffler Assy.
Pic 1 confirms the pipe is a 2 inch diameter;
Pic 3 shows clamp part number of A9AA-5A231-B, 2 inch;
Pic 4 shows the rear pipe and muffler as a completer assembly;
Jim
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But it's "only" pictures. It that pipe really welded? Have you Ford documentation to back up the welded muffler and pipe?
Respectfully
Don't need documentation IMHO if and when you have examples of real Ford assembly line work.
As far as the attachment. If not welded how are they two held to the other.
Have any documentation that does not show or include service replacement parts? Maybe something that shows or identifies the parts used on the assembly line? Plenty of examples where Ford listed one part or process and didn't follow through, changed their mind or the idea never got off the drawing board.
No reason to argue lets look for the facts about how the cars were built on the day the cars were built :)
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Respectfully?
Don't need documentation IMHO if and when you have examples of real Ford assembly line work.
I confirmed that the tail pipe is welded to the muffler for early 260 and 289 single exhausts, provided Ford service stock numbers and Ford service drawings but you insist an undated picture is the absolute bible.
As far as the attachment. If not welded how are they two held to the other.
Read note three on picture two - Supplier in Muffler Assy. There is no reference to how those two pieces are attached - I can't think of any Ford service document that specifies attachment method, so I would guess - weld.
Jim
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I confirmed that the tail pipe is welded to the muffler for early 260 and 289 single exhausts, provided Ford service stock numbers and Ford service drawings but you insist an undated picture is the absolute bible.
Think you missed the point of the post and glad to hear we agree that there were only two "joints" or unions in the system
The pictures were just to share on the site and with members what Charles linked in his post and made it easier for those interested to find and view plus we don't know how long BAT will leave them on their suite