ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: BHStang on September 15, 2024, 09:16:09 PM
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Does anyone have some pictures on what tooling setup they are using to successfully install the control arm rivets? I would like to be able to do this myself instead of sending out every set of arms. The AMK rivets crush fairly easy but keeping them from bending sideways seems to be a real challenge. Including 1 picture of what I have been using on my press thus far.
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Question - do you heat the rivet any before?
Al
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Question - do you heat the rivet any before?
Al
You shouldn't have to.
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They crush easy as its a soft metal. The problem with heating is you are so close to the rubber dust boot, and cork gasket for that matter that if you got it hot enough to make a difference it would probably become an issue. Or at least I would think.
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They crush easy as its a soft metal. The problem with heating is you are so close to the rubber dust boot, and cork gasket for that matter that if you got it hot enough to make a difference it would probably become an issue. Or at least I would think.
You are correct ,heat will damage the rubber boots. Extreme heat red hot rivets like used to couple steel girders on skyscrapers is not necessary for this situation.
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I think you need to build a very sturdy jig that doesn't allow the arms to move while you press in the rivets. Holding these by hand is not going to work.
You should probably make the jig adjustable (bolts) so you can adjust the amount of tilt in both directions (x,y) until you get it just right. You should also capture the top of the arms so NOTHING moves.
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Only way to do it properly is to have a high quality press and the jigs and tooling need to be professionally made. I've seen a lot of cut corner set ups and you're just wasting your time. I had my tooling made probably 15 years ago and it cost around 2K then. Probably 200 control arms later its paid off many times.
There also is a learning curve even when you have correct tooling. Good to practice on metal scraps first.
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Who made the tooling and do you have any pictures to share? I have connections to some professional machine shops just need to work out the design.
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Somewhere in the past, I vaguely remember a post about the "press" used to install these rivits. It is not a standard press, it is a stamping press where "tonnage" and "speed" are involved. In other words, you need a VERY special machine shop.
Jim
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Honestly, I don?t think the press is anything special other than it needs to be a high-quality where there won?t be a lot of flex and slop involved. My press is a 30 ton and typically the rivets set at about 8 tons.
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Honestly, I don?t think the press is anything special other than it needs to be a high-quality where there won?t be a lot of flex and slop involved. My press is a 30 ton and typically the rivets set at about 8 tons.
This is the rating I got from the AMK tech rep I spoke with recently.
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Let's say the ball joint is fine but the boot has deteriorated on properly riveted LCAs. Can the boot just be replaced without having to replace the whole ball joint?
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Let's say the ball joint is fine but the boot has deteriorated on properly riveted LCAs. Can the boot just be replaced without having to replace the whole ball joint?
Haven't heard of anyone that has been successful at that. Had the same issue in the past where the oil protectant negatively affected the boots so had to them. "Tucking" them didn't work for me
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Let's say the ball joint is fine but the boot has deteriorated on properly riveted LCAs. Can the boot just be replaced without having to replace the whole ball joint?
The lower ball joint rarely wears out . It is very evident if it is worn out if it is the least bit loose. The lower ball joint is harder to remove and requires extra steps even after the rivets are removed. The upper ball joint is very susceptible to wearing out but it can be rebuilt to factory specs if not otherwise damaged. It comes out when the rivets are removed. You can after cosmetically restoring a lower arm not replace the ball joint and instead replace the boot and boot retainer. Of course that will require new rivets. You can not replace the boot successfully without removing the rivets holding the boot retainer.
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This is the rating I got from the AMK tech rep I spoke with recently.
Does AMK even have the correct upper control arm rivets yet? After having them for a long time they had a replacement it was not even close to correct. I ended up having about 1000 made to original specs.
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Having more success now. The die I am using is not exactly the same waffle pattern but it?s close. I used an old 1 ton press to hold the die and keep the travel up and down perfectly aligned (that?s the issue with the 12ton). I of course used the 12ton for the actual force, the 1 ton became purely a die holder. Large bolt beveled out end to cup the bottom of the rivet.
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Revisiting this thread, what does the upper die look like and where can I get one? I don't need the waffle impression as my LCAs don't have that feature.
And what size bolt under the rivet to support the rivet,? I'm guessing grade 8 would be preferred.
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Revisiting this thread, what does the upper die look like and where can I get one? I don't need the waffle impression as my LCAs don't have that feature.
And what size bolt under the rivet to support the rivet,? I'm guessing grade 8 would be preferred.
Guess your asking about the upper dies used for reproducing the "look" rather than the original dies. The ones people have made vary a lot to the point to when Rare Parts were doing them they had 24 different waffle patterns made up because so many customers insisted that the others were not correct but their pattern was.
These have been posted before but here are a couple of close ups from original assembly line uppers from April 69 for comparison once you start looking at dies and making choices. Sorry don't know anyone currently that is selling the dies. Maybe someone else does
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-281022231901-18060197.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-281022231902-180611989.jpeg)
Interesting to me is that the waffle depressions at the edges do not always extend past the edge of the pattern all the way around as if it was made a specific diameter round and they attempted to center it on the rivet and if off slightly they produced the run over. Just an observation on my part
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How about the jig that others use to secure the LCA for riveting? Are there any pictures or suggestions?
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One other question. Were the rivets hot or cold when installed? Given manufacturers today are still making some riveted ball joints, so they cold rivet or heat up the rivet first? Given the rubber ball joint boot, I'd think you could possibly melt the boot if the rivet is red hot.
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One other question. Were the rivets hot or cold when installed? Given manufacturers today are still making some riveted ball joints, so they cold rivet or heat up the rivet first? Given the rubber ball joint boot, I'd think you could possibly melt the boot if the rivet is red hot.
Cold.