ConcoursMustang Forums

Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Suspension => Topic started by: 69GT350H on October 07, 2024, 12:49:46 AM

Title: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: 69GT350H on October 07, 2024, 12:49:46 AM
I have a friend working on a 1968 Shelby GT350 that was supposedly recently restored. Among other problems, he's having a problem with the brakes. When stopping the car, the rear wheels will lock up when trying to stop the car. He has installed rebuilt calipers that were matched to the set taken off, new pads, and all hardware. New master cylinder and the car has what appears to be a newly rebuilt banded brake booster. We have checked the booster to cylinder rod and verified it is of the correct adjusted length, and it moves freely. The proportioning valve/distribution block that came on the car was replaced with a rebuilt assembly. The system has been bled several times with no issues. Unfortunately, we still have the same fairly weak front wheel braking, and the rear wheels locking up easily issue.

Any suggestions on what we might be missing? It's a power disc brake car. Are there different power boosters for this car, might it have the wrong one, or maybe the wrong calipers?
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 07, 2024, 01:27:46 AM
I have a friend working on a 1968 Shelby GT350 that was supposedly recently restored. Among other problems, he's having a problem with the brakes. When stopping the car, the rear wheels will lock up when trying to stop the car. He has installed rebuilt calipers that were matched to the set taken off, new pads, and all hardware. New master cylinder and the car has what appears to be a newly rebuilt banded brake booster. We have checked the booster to cylinder rod and verified it is of the correct adjusted length, and it moves freely. The proportioning valve/distribution block that came on the car was replaced with a rebuilt assembly. The system has been bled several times with no issues. Unfortunately, we still have the same fairly weak front wheel braking, and the rear wheels locking up easily issue.

Any suggestions on what we might be missing? It's a power disc brake car. Are there different power boosters for this car, might it have the wrong one, or maybe the wrong calipers?
It sounds like proportioning problem. Too much in the back and not enough in the front. Where any metal lines changed when the different proportioning valve was changed because it reads like the lines from front and back have been reversed. There are a lot of variables and without seeing how things were done it is just a guessing game IMO. I would change out the proportioning valve out for a new one or someone who knows what they are doing rebuild it . At least that way you can rule the proportioning valve out.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: 69GT350H on October 07, 2024, 08:15:18 AM
Thanks Bob. To the best of my knowledge, the hard lines were not replaced. As to being improperly connected, I thought the lines different sizes, or at least the fittings were so you could not mix them up. If the rear line did get attached to one of the 2 fronts, then only 1 of the fronts, would be attached to the rear and one of the fronts would stop as normal?

Unfortunately, I do not know what was done on the previous "restoration". I might have to go and verify the position of each hard line.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 07, 2024, 11:19:19 AM
Thanks Bob. To the best of my knowledge, the hard lines were not replaced. As to being improperly connected, I thought the lines different sizes, or at least the fittings were so you could not mix them up. If the rear line did get attached to one of the 2 fronts, then only 1 of the fronts, would be attached to the rear and one of the fronts would stop as normal?

Unfortunately, I do not know what was done on the previous "restoration". I might have to go and verify the position of each hard line.
Like I said without seeing what someone else has done it is just a guessing game. In this case if tracing the lines down they should be routed the same as on your 69 coming off of the master and proportioning valve. The most logical explanation for what you describe is an ill preforming proportioning valve. Regardless of where the problem lies the best of luck finding it.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 07, 2024, 11:35:06 AM
Certainly not the cause of the overall problem but because of a possible contributing factor I should mention given the weak front brake symptom that if someone install the front caliper wrong  (side to side)the bleeder will not be positioned correctly and you will not be able to bleed all of the air out of them. It can be easy to get them mixed up and installed wrong . Don?t ask me how I know. ::)
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Coralsnake on October 08, 2024, 06:17:04 AM
More pictures please

Front and rear brakes.

Just to be clear the rear brakes are drums?
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: 69GT350H on October 08, 2024, 09:54:07 AM
I need a little break (not brake :P ) here till Milton passes. I'm in Miami but will be hosting some friends that have evacuated Tampa.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: 70cj428 on October 09, 2024, 12:33:04 PM
Just a couple more ideas, make sure the car has the correct rear wheel cylinders. There are several visually identical wheel cylinders with different internal bore diameters and the wrong ones can change the factory proportioning. Also, make sure the front calipers are not swapped side to side. If they are swapped, they won't bleed completely, and you'll have weak front brakes. If nothing else works, try swapping out the master cylinder ...
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: 69GT350H on October 13, 2024, 05:16:22 PM
Thank you all for the comments. Now that my guests have headed back up to Tampa, I'm going to take my 69 GT350 over to my friends so we can look at things side by side. Mine has the KK big spindles. What differences would we be looking at with the 68 and 69 GT350's?
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 13, 2024, 05:50:18 PM
Thank you all for the comments. Now that my guests have headed back up to Tampa, I'm going to take my 69 GT350 over to my friends so we can look at things side by side. Mine has the KK big spindles. What differences would we be looking at with the 68 and 69 GT350's?
KK spindles do not have anything to do with the braking system relative to this discussion.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: 69GT350H on October 13, 2024, 05:57:21 PM
KK spindles do not have anything to do with the braking system relative to this discussion.

The calipers bolt to the spindles, so that means there is nothing in that area that would be different. Thank you.
Title: Re: 68 GT350 braking problem
Post by: Bob Gaines on October 13, 2024, 06:01:31 PM
The calipers bolt to the spindles, so that means there is nothing in that area that would be different. Thank you.
Yes it bolts on the same.
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: cocomusti on December 01, 2024, 04:56:12 PM
Check the proportioning valve for proper function and adjust/replace if needed.
Ensure rear drum brakes (if present) are correctly adjusted, not too tight.
Inspect for contaminated brake fluid; flush and bleed the system thoroughly.
Verify rear brake lines for damage or collapse, especially rubber sections.
Confirm the master cylinder matches the braking system?s specifications.
Test the brake booster for proper operation and ensure even vacuum distribution

192.168.100.1 (https://1921681001.id/) 192.168.1.1 (https://19216811.cam/)
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: jwc66k on December 01, 2024, 08:19:43 PM
First, welcome to the forum. You will find an abundance of reference materials in posts and in this forum's library to keep you busy. My own interests are the 65 and 66 years, plus an occasional look-see at 1969 Sportsroofs. Keep in mind that this is a concourse forum, but we "drift" from that objective occasionally.
Jim


 
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: 69GT350H on December 01, 2024, 08:49:24 PM
Check the proportioning valve for proper function and adjust/replace if needed.
Ensure rear drum brakes (if present) are correctly adjusted, not too tight.
Inspect for contaminated brake fluid; flush and bleed the system thoroughly.
Verify rear brake lines for damage or collapse, especially rubber sections.
Confirm the master cylinder matches the braking system?s specifications.
Test the brake booster for proper operation and ensure even vacuum distribution.

Rebuilt the proportioning valve, then replaced it. No improvement. New pads on all 4 corners, but no improvement. Cylinders and calipers bled about 5 times, from the longest run to the shortest, with no improvement. New master cylinder bench bled and installed, breaks bled, no improvement. The last info I got was new rotors were on order.
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: ruppstang on December 01, 2024, 09:49:47 PM
Do you have the calipers on the correct sides?
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: Bob Gaines on December 01, 2024, 11:58:20 PM
Do you have the calipers on the correct sides?
+1 . They are right and left specific.
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: 69GT350H on December 25, 2024, 11:10:20 AM
I did not see this in person, so forgive me if I have any of the details wrong. As it was explained to me, in the power booster there is a plastic cup that the adjustable rod sets into. I was told the cup was cracked. When assembled with the adjustable rod and MC installed, when the brakes are depressed, the cup would split open and the rod would slip into the crack and not travel the proper and required distance. So this is why when we did all our measurements the rod length was proper, but when actually put to use, the rod was short. A replacement booster was installed and the car's brakes/stops correctly now.
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: 69GT350H on December 27, 2024, 05:47:30 PM
Strange, I just got this email notification, but I do not see it here...

A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching by lightwtjet.

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 Many of us have had to replace the wheel cylinders. Yours may be wrong. Can someone tell him the diameter of the piston in the correct rear wheel cylinder?

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 The ConcoursMustang Forums Team.
Title: Re: Braking problem - 68 GT350
Post by: J_Speegle on December 28, 2024, 10:51:20 PM
Strange, I just got this email notification, but I do not see it here...

A reply has been posted to a topic you are watching by lightwtjet.

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 Many of us have had to replace the wheel cylinders. Yours may be wrong. Can someone tell him the diameter of the piston in the correct rear wheel cylinder?

 Regards,
 The ConcoursMustang Forums Team.

This can be the result of someone posting a response then deleting it. Sometimes you will find members on sites doing this so that they can follow the discussion but don't have anything to add at the moment. Can't say that is what took place but a possibility