ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: 69supercj on November 20, 2024, 08:52:44 PM
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Was looking at the article in MT about detailing these engines and I was wondering if ALL of these engines received the markings on the drivers side head like shown in the article or were these markings specific to the car/options, ect. Is there a guide to these markings? Mine is a San Jose car if that matters.
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Not sure if I'm that familiar with the article you mention. Have seen dozens of article and books on what the authors considered original markings some better than others and often little or no reference is made as to plant, when during production or other details that might affect the use or non-use of a particular finding if one was made. Not really here to comment specifically on other peoples work but happy to share what I've seen and or documented.
Lets start with the first fact. The engines were all built at the same engine plant the majority of the markings would be the same no matter the car assembly plant. Of course there could be other, often only a couple, that may have been applied in house at the specific car assembly plant.
It appears that your asking specifically about the markings many apply to the drivers side cylinder head on 69-70 428CJ. These have likely been applied either because they found them or they just copied an article or someone else's car. I'm betting on #2 since this has been a very common copied marking since the 90's at least. Looking at the examples I have from 69 and 70 examples I found more that the always reproduced white "S" and sometimes a second marking. Not sure of the significance or meaning. Could be the line and have not cross referenced the few original marked engines to see if there is any correlation between the "S" and the type (CJ or SCJ) of engine. At least that might be the first step. Other markings I'm seeing/finding is a number not a letter.
As for other markings typically found on 69 & 70 CJ and SCJ
These would include markings found on items like the following that were attached to the engine when shipped to the car plant. Of course the markings would differ depending on the engine s specific details. Things like CJ verses SCJ, automatic verses 4 speed and so on.
- distributors
- carburetor
- pulleys
- driver side valve cover though as mentioned the other day in one of the threads there are a number of variations of this stamp used originally.
- exhaust manifolds
- paint markings at the rear of the block and internally
- markings applied to the front surfaces of the heads once installed and engine was paint as well as markings prior to painting the assembled engine
Things like air cleaner/shaker markings could differ between cars plant but can't be certain. Just trying to be careful.
Sorry I've not done a complete guide to the markings for this application as of yet
As for the specific question about the markings often found on the drivers
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Not sure if I'm that familiar with the article you mention. Have seen dozens of article and books on what the authors considered original markings some better than others and often little or no reference is made as to plant, when during production or other details that might affect the use or non-use of a particular finding if one was made. Not really here to comment specifically on other peoples work but happy to share what I've seen and or documented.
Lets start with the first fact. The engines were all built at the same engine plant the majority of the markings would be the same no matter the car assembly plant. Of course there could be other, often only a couple, that may have been applied in house at the specific car assembly plant.
It appears that your asking specifically about the markings many apply to the drivers side cylinder head on 69-70 428CJ. These have likely been applied either because they found them or they just copied an article or someone else's car. I'm betting on #2 since this has been a very common copied marking since the 90's at least. Looking at the examples I have from 69 and 70 examples I found more that the always reproduced white "S" and sometimes a second marking. Not sure of the significance or meaning. Could be the line and have not cross referenced the few original marked engines to see if there is any correlation between the "S" and the type (CJ or SCJ) of engine. At least that might be the first step. Other markings I'm seeing/finding is a number not a letter.
As for other markings typically found on 69 & 70 CJ and SCJ
These would include markings found on items like the following that were attached to the engine when shipped to the car plant. Of course the markings would differ depending on the engine s specific details. Things like CJ verses SCJ, automatic verses 4 speed and so on.
- distributors
- carburetor
- pulleys
- driver side valve cover though as mentioned the other day in one of the threads there are a number of variations of this stamp used originally.
- exhaust manifolds
- paint markings at the rear of the block and internally
- markings applied to the front surfaces of the heads once installed and engine was paint as well as markings prior to painting the assembled engine
Things like air cleaner/shaker markings could differ between cars plant but can't be certain. Just trying to be careful.
Sorry I've not done a complete guide to the markings for this application as of yet
As for the specific question about the markings often found on the drivers
Thanks for your response Jeff. So I guess the short answer to my question is go with what's been popular for the last 30 or so years as far as the drivers side head. As for the other components that got marked we don't have enough info or documentation to correctly mark a Feb.14th San Jose built SCJ equipped with a C6 and power steering? I guess my search for info continues!
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Thanks for your response Jeff. So I guess the short answer to my question is go with what's been popular for the last 30 or so years as far as the drivers side head.
Don't know that it would be my choice but you will likely not get a lot of questions or push back but you might get "are those something you found on your car or did you just copy someone else?" sort of question. I do it all the time :) Positive thing if you feel you want to go and apply them is that they were at least somewhat typical of the time period so guess it comes down to a choice or a coin toss IMO
As for the other components that got marked we don't have enough info or documentation to correctly mark a Feb.14th San Jose built SCJ equipped with a C6 and power steering? I guess my search for info continues!
As far as typical markings for the other items I mentioned there is at least or more documentation for those markings than the head marking on the drivers side from what I've collected so it gets back to choice again. Since this is a fairly specific request for a car equipped and built like yours I invite you to PM and we'll see how we can come up with some suggestions
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Interested in the same info 1969 428 January 20th build date San Jose.
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Looking at the very limited number of original examples its really difficult to be sure when each stamp type was used. Their is the possibility that if assigned to individuals they could all be intermixed. But that sort of stamp often included an identifier (name or number) assigned to a specific worker so that there was accountability. If instead this was a group stamp that was provided to an inspector working that particular line (of which there were be a number ever day) then the stamping could have been intermixed. The last possibility is that the plant replaced one version with another at a particular point in production ( a date) or just when the older version wore out.
Just trying to demonstrate the possibilities and the challenge of making a real positive recommendation based on what little we have.
From the examples I have where I have only the real date the cars were completed not when the engine was assembled I can offer the following
OK in the box version has been document on cars built 11/19/1968 - 2/25/1969 - 4/4/1969 - 5/22/1969
As mentioned where the car was built is not important for this details since all engines were supplied from the same engine plant for 69 FE engines
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This question was also posted on the CJ for input from those members. There was a request or question if there were any period pictures that showed the markings or in the ones I found no markings.
A couple of caveats (easiest thing to do is just to post the same post here :)
If your asking about San Jose built cars typically cars from that plant were not used for articles or promotions.
If general any plant (usually Dearborn) shots then yes there are some and they typically show no marks or in the ones I found different marks than you will see guys using on "restored" cars. In some cases these cars were pilot or very early cars and often had been changed (improved) for road test and such. In other examples of magazine cars and articles the cars were drag race cars that had already been modified or even had engines apart to improve their chances. Both of those types of cars are not that much use when looking for reference cars for a restoration or just research IMO
On a few, likely because Ford wanted to show off cars with a lot of options, they ahve AC so the the compressor kind of gets in the way of viewing those surfaces
Here are a few I found when looking through some of my collection. These focus where often people will apply markings to the drivers side head and valve cover face.
Couple of different 69's on upper row - bottom row a couple of different 68's
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-051224191611-207811180.jpeg)
And a shot of what was likely one of the prototype 69 GT500 so possibly not a production engine nor practices shown but you asked about period pictures ;)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/20/6-051224192322-20782874.jpeg)
Also want to remind people reading this I'm not suggesting that no 69 428 received the markings asked about in the original post just the idea that ALL were marked in that way or markings. The OP originally posted on multiple forums so we get a bit of cross talk as well as different discussions on the different sites
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So mine being a Feb.14th built car would get the OK in the box version for the front of the DS valve cover. Where can one find one of these stamps?
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So mine being a Feb.14th built car would get the OK in the box version for the front of the DS valve cover. Where can one find one of these stamps?
Think that would be our best guess based on what I've seen and collected. Doubt that anyone would ask if you just used the OK without the box that some people are selling. Looked at my files and it appears I made at least one and have the art work. Should test or double check the sizing against a FE valve cover to confirm the sizing.