ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: 68 S Code on July 17, 2011, 11:34:49 PM
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I think I may have a small issue with the smog setup install. All the parts and hoses are original with the exception of one hose. I'm looking at a pic that Tim L sent me of a CJ and I notice that the drivers side tube and check valve is sitting up pretty high over the motor. the best way to describe it is that the top of the canister lines up with the bottom of the check valve if you draw a line across from side to side. My check valve is pretty much in line with the canister or maybe even a touch lower. There is no way to make any adjustments on the tube as the length on the small cylinder head tubes and ferrules is fixed. It was a bear to get the mounting bracket, coil strap, engine tag and the bolt to all come together but I sweat ed it out in the garage with temps over 100 and got it done. This car has no AC and the one in Tim's pic does. Were there two sets of drivers side tubes for AC and without? I'm sure that the canister bracket mounts to the intake manifold radiator neck at the upper LH side bolt so the canister height is fixed. The S hose goes below the heater hose. Everything else seemed to come together OK.
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I think I may have a small issue with the smog setup install. All the parts and hoses are original with the exception of one hose. I'm looking at a pic that Tim L sent me of a CJ and I notice that the drivers side tube and check valve is sitting up pretty high over the motor. the best way to describe it is that the top of the canister lines up with the bottom of the check valve if you draw a line across from side to side. My check valve is pretty much in line with the canister or maybe even a touch lower. There is no way to make any adjustments on the tube as the length on the small cylinder head tubes and ferrules is fixed. It was a bear to get the mounting bracket, coil strap, engine tag and the bolt to all come together but I sweat ed it out in the garage with temps over 100 and got it done. This car has no AC and the one in Tim's pic does. Were there two sets of drivers side tubes for AC and without? I'm sure that the canister bracket mounts to the intake manifold radiator neck at the upper LH side bolt so the canister height is fixed. The S hose goes below the heater hose. Everything else seemed to come together OK.
no there is not two different driver side smog tubes one for A/C and one for no A/C. There is a way to make adjustments. You can gingerly grip the top of the tube with both hands and bend the tube for adjustments . The driver side tube will be higher the the passenger side . It would be prudent to get some original vintage photos to get a idea of where you want to be . I have seen numerious slight assemblyline variations in height and angle of the hose/tube. Of course verify the short tube length that goes between your canister on the check valve on your smog tube before adjustments. I hope this helps. Bob
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That picture (if its the one I think it is) is not one of my projects so I don't know if its and original tube or repop. I've always had to "adjust" the repop tubes to get them to line up correctly.
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I did find a picture of what looks to be a 69 SCJ as there is an oil cooler adapter and a fuel pup which could be rebuilt. Looks like the one on my old boss 302. In this pic the tube with the check valve is also sitting up much higher and there is no AC or even PS on it. The bracket which mounts at the coil is completely different. It has a tall verticle leg where mine is really more horizontal. The second to last pic is of a messed up smog tube I have which shows the taller leg. In the shot where you see the hose between the canister and check valve you can see the reason i am questioning my set-up. The check valve is almost below the center line of the canister. But I cant see how I could make the tubes grow vertically. Last pic is to show the S hose and the way I routed it. Is that OK?
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It is more typical to see the check valve on the driver smog tube taller then the the centerline of the canister then even with or below. I have never seen a original tube in the position you show in your picture. It appears that your smog tube has been bent down dramatically. No wonder you had trouble with lining up the coil,engine tag,bracket and bolt. The picture of the "messed up tube " looks more normal then what you have installed on the car now. I think you can man handle it back into shape however. I would try doing it bolted in place. you don't have anything to lose. Bob
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Clearly that tube has been seriously reworked and is much too low. The tube should be almost parallel with cannister. The bend in the tube bracket forms a recess to allow the coil positioning,
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c74/tlea/3277engine007-1.jpg)
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The good point the Tim brought up is that the contour of the strap is to give clearance to the coil . Your coil should be reversed with the terminals facing the firewall and the coil rotated so the center plug wire ternimal is towards the valve cover and the two terminals one on top and one below are on the carb side. Bob
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In the pic Tim provided I now see that the hose running across is almost straight across. My mounting bracket is way off as Bob pointed out. My only fear is that I ruin the smog line. It seem i would have to bend it upright where it joins the small tube leading to the first cylinder on drivers side. Then there will be more bending at the mounting bracket. I too noticed that I mounted the coil backwards. Everytime I think I get a little closer to installing the radiator and hoses I find myself going backwards. Now the double alternator belt doesn't want to fit. Seems to be 2 or 3 inches short and that with the alternator pushed inboard as far as the case will allow. I've got the right crank pulley, alternator pulley and I believe the right waterpump pulley. Brackets look ok so I don't know why the belts seem short. I dont know if the sway bar is up high limiting the adjustment arm from swinging inboard towards the crank pulley because the car is up in the air with the lower control arm hanging down. I believe that once the arms compress the sway bar moves a bit.
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The problem is not bending the big part of the tube to be straight its the fact that youu then have to reconfigure the flat strap to fit with the new geometry. I've gotten pretty good at it but it takes some time.
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I think when you bend the tube back in place (one hand down low and one hand up by the check valve the strap will comeback into the relative correct position. This is best done bolted in place like it is now. I have had to do it many times. I wouldn't stress over perfection like in Tims picture . It is much more normal to see the tube off a little . I would venture to say when the smog was installed there was some "field fitting involved". Just my observations. Bob
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I'd try it tonight but the 98 degree air temps and high humidity is unbearable. The garage is even hotter. Well its good to know that some twseaking is not out of the ordinary. Mine may be a little more excessive but we will see what happens. I will try to get it to look right. Bob when you say try it with it bolted in place do you mean with the coil bolt installed at the strap as well?
With the Alternator belt problem I had my younger son check to see if smog belt and PS belts fit. They do so I dont know why the alternator belt seems short. I've checked all the pulleys crossreferencing whats listed on Mustang Tek site and it all checks out. Only the waterpump pulley is unstamped but the dimensions match whats listed as being correct.
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I'd try it tonight but the 98 degree air temps and high humidity is unbearable. The garage is even hotter. Well its good to know that some twseaking is not out of the ordinary. Mine may be a little more excessive but we will see what happens. I will try to get it to look right. Bob when you say try it with it bolted in place do you mean with the coil bolt installed at the strap as well?
With the Alternator belt problem I had my younger son check to see if smog belt and PS belts fit. They do so I dont know why the alternator belt seems short. I've checked all the pulleys crossreferencing whats listed on Mustang Tek site and it all checks out. Only the waterpump pulley is unstamped but the dimensions match whats listed as being correct.
Yes. Bob
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Thanks for the suggestion. I will take coil off and tag first then give it a go.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I will take coil off and tag first then give it a go.
I would leave the coil in place . I don't think it will be in the way plus it's base will keep the strap from trying to roll up during repositoning. Bob
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Good point. Maybe I will turn it around so the brace doesn't hit the snoot of the coil. I'll wrap the end to keep it from accidentally getting scratched. I'll let you know how it works out.
i think I have the alternator belt issue figured out. marti auto works shipping two new belts today so hope to have them by weekend.
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Good point. Maybe I will turn it around so the brace doesn't hit the snoot of the coil. I'll wrap the end to keep it from accidentally getting scratched. I'll let you know how it works out.
i think I have the alternator belt issue figured out. marti auto works shipping two new belts today so hope to have them by weekend.
Yes ,turn the coil around before adjusting. I meant to say that. Bob
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Bob thanks for the words of wisdom and direction on getting the smog tube correctly aligned. Used the hose across the top as a guide to getting it positioned correctly. It had a small bend in it and I bought the tube and check valve up to the hose end. Thanks again.
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I am glad I could help. I hesitate to use the word perfect but the tubes orientation looks typical (a good thing) to what I have observed on other unmolested cars. Bob
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Thanks Again.
I'm a little closer to firing it up now.
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Rich, tube looks good now but wanted to point out a couple other items that stand out
BB Holley throttle spring is usually black
BB distributor primary wire usually has white boot
Coil has a specific orientation of terminals, look at assembly manual
Distibutor hold down natural, bolt cad
Water neck ported thermal fitting brass and anodized not painted
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Tim thanks for the comments much appreciated.
When I ordered the spring from Bill at Mansfield initially I asked for a black one as manual called it out black. Bill said black was for a CJ but green was correct for a 390. I have to send back some belts so I could exchange the spring. Question is what is correct for an S code.
Regarding wire it was replaced during rebuild by Tim O Conner because the original lead had a break in the insulation. I too am bothered by the green boot. Tim didn't send it back.
I thought I oriented the coil with terminals stacked along carb side as Bob G had suggested. Gave it a turn of degrees off vertical (not much though) to show stamp on coils. Member here did a nice job stamping it. Regretfully I sent him possibly an NOS one versus the original because it had a dent in it. I see some small letters/numbers on the yellow top so I may fix the dent and have that one stamped. I don't have the engine assembly manual.
Regarding distributor hold down the clamping bracket is natural steel? the blue looked out of place but I thought it might be black?
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Forgot one.
I cleaned up the vacuume fitting as you mentioned but the restorer who built the engine for me painted it blue so good
Catch as I haven't filled the cooling system yet. I'll strip it tomorrow.
Thanks and keep the comments coming. I'd rather fix it before I fill it full of fluids.
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The vacuum switch is not painted as Tim indicated however it was installed when the engine was painted and some kind of mask was used to keep it from being overall painted . The bottom threads and maybe partially on the brass would have a soft feathered blue paint transition line from my observations on unmolested cars. Bob
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Bob thanks for the tip i will see what i can do to make it look a little more original once I clean it up. I Promise not to take a wire wheel to it.
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I'm sticking with black for all holley equipped big blocks. If you are getting stuff from Bill, he has leads with white boots. Coil terminals are stacked but on the valve cover side.
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Ok Tim I will give bill a call and get the distr lead and spring. Jeff mentioned that vacuume strap may be brass and not alum on a Dearborn car so I can swap that out also. Can't believe ESC decal kit is so expensive and does not include aircleaner decals. Who makes the best repop of the 390 lid decal and the airfilter decal? Does it get a FRONT decal?
Does anyone know if the aircleaner snorkel on an S code is to has an external vacuum motor to operate the flapper? The shop manual shows a generic illustration of a vacuum motor hanging off the side of the dropdown where the door is. Checked eBay last night and S code snorkel but Andy at mag mustang had a J code and x code snorkle. The J code has a bracket and motor. The X code has neither. My S snorkle does not have evidence of a mounting tab ever being there. I have another S and X snorkle in my collection and no tabs either. The vacuum diagram book I have refers to a hose w/ blue stripe going to vacuum motor on LH side aircleaner body and a hose w/ black stripe going to snorkle side. Is this only on small blocks or maybe just J code? Do I need to look for a vacuums motor and tab?
Thanks
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I'm sticking with black for all holley equipped big blocks. If you are getting stuff from Bill, he has leads with white boots. Coil terminals are stacked but on the valve cover side.
I have seen the coil index both ways in the field. The assembly manual shows towards the valve cover. Perkins had it index towards the carb side in his 94 MM article which may have biased my opinion. Bob
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Bob thanks for the tip i will see what i can do to make it look a little more original once I clean it up. I Promise not to take a wire wheel to it.
If you want a more accurate look for the vacuum tree ,the gray pot metal finish of the vacuum tree is supposed to be the same gold finish used on the Holley carb body's. If you lightly dust the gray part with some of the Eastwood Carb renew it looks much closer to original gold look then the faded gray used potmetal look. FYI I see the NPD has come out with a repro of the vacuum tree just minus the Ford engineering number and date. Bob
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I've seen aluminum and brass used but brass is more common. Jeff can probably better answer the air cleaner questions
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............. Does it get a FRONT decal?
NO
Does anyone know if the aircleaner snorkel on an S code is to has an external vacuum motor to operate the flapper?
No
The shop manual shows a generic illustration of a vacuum motor hanging off the side of the dropdown where the door is. Checked eBay last night and S code snorkel but Andy at mag mustang had a J code and x code snorkle. The J code has a bracket and motor. The X code has neither.
You're just going to get confused by looking at other applications ;)
Not sure what a "mounting tab" is :o
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Jeff thanks for verifying the snorkle. Regarding the tab go to eBay and type in 68 mustang snorkle. Three will pop up. Look for 302 4V snorkle under Mag Mustang and Andy showed quite a few shots of the snorkle. Even has the stamped number on it. You will see what I meant by tab. Thanks for answering my specific question. Looks like NPD has some 390 decals so may have to go that route.
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Bob here is what I did with the vacume stem. Does it look close?
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Bob here is what I did with the vacume stem. Does it look close?
Yes ,but you will probably want to use some pipe sealer to prevent leaks. After it is installed use a pick to get out as much visible sealer and then after it is set up brush touchup paint to cover up any indication of sealer. Bob
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I used teflon tape but only put it low on the treads so it isn't visible. Builder seemed to have used clear silicone as I cleaned most of it off. Wondering if the color I used for the stem is ok and if the light dusting of blue is also acceptable.
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I used teflon tape but only put it low on the treads so it isn't visible. Builder seemed to have used clear silicone as I cleaned most of it off. Wondering if the color I used for the stem is ok and if the light dusting of blue is also acceptable.
Yes, it looks fine from the pics. Bob
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Great. I had to improvise with the stem color as i didn't have any of the eastwood paint which you mentioned. Used a gold as a base and then lightly dusted it with a green. Liked the way it looked so I used the same dusting technique on the brass portion after I painted the exposed threads blue.