ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Drivetrain => Topic started by: 1966GTFB on August 26, 2011, 06:06:31 PM
-
Ok, I have read so many posts regarding this but I want to make sure once and for all I have the correct color before I do the work. I only have access to Duplicolor product so I need to know what one do I use. Is it DE1621 Old Ford Blue, DE1601 Ford Blue or DE1606 Ford Dark Blue? The notes below are from Mustang Monthly and now I am really confused. :-\
Thanks for your help......
For many years prior to 1966, Ford engines were color-keyed to specific applications and carlines. For 1966, this practice changed, when all Ford engines were painted Ford Corporate Blue. Instead of color-keyed valve covers and air cleaners, the entire engine would be Ford Blue, like the Ford Blue Oval and the Ford Blue offset dealer signs popping up in 1966. Ford's message for 1966 and beyond was simple-if it is blue, it is power by Ford.
As in 1964-'65, Ford continued to paint the valve covers separate from the engines. Engine long-blocks, which included block, intake manifold, heads, and oil pan, were all painted Ford Blue, a darker blue that covered all hardware except the valve-cover bolts. Valve covers were installed toward the end of engine assembly using natural metal bolts with integral lock washers. We've learned through observation and conversation with restorers that Duplicolor's Dark Ford Blue (1606) is an accepted color for '66 and later Ford engine restorations. An alternative, when Duplicolor isn't available, is Krylon's Dark Ford Blue, which is also the correct shade of dark blue. Plastikote is another paint brand, Royal Blue (1134) an acceptable color for '66 and later
And again from another source......
There are 3 different blues that have been used ...
Light blue - a.k.a. Old Ford Blue
1963 (some applications) - 1965
Duplicolor DE 1601 (Ford Blue)
Corporate Ford Blue
1966-1968
Orig Ford PN: EP-2075-C
Duplicolor DE 1621 (Old Ford Blue)
PPG DAR 13358
Ford Blue
1969-1981
Duplicolor DE 1606 (Ford Dark Blue)
TRW #630224
Eastwood's "Dark Ford Blue."
Thanks, Jeff
-
GREAT FIRST POST !! Welcome and thank you. I hope you find this forum to be respectful of our hobby, interest in cars and each other AND "very sharing" (just as you did here) - I HAVE !
My guess is this isn't your first rodeo AND know many here as friends.
Mark
P.S. We have all battled with this issue - I'm hoping that all the wrong shades I have can be used "by buying other Fords" ! haha
-
Thanks Mark. I guess the story is do you go with Duplicolor 1621 or 1606 and hope for the best. I would hate to be so far from wrong with one or the other.
Jeff
-
I used Duplicolor 1606 on my 66 K-code block, several knowledgeable people have seen it and I've never been told it is incorrect, so hopefully it is the right color.
-
For rattle can I've always used Plasti-cote on small blocks and Duplicolor for big blocks. Just what I've found to be the closest in my experience
-
thanks everyone,I will see how it looks.
Great help and resource once again....
Jeff
-
We handle the Dupli-Color brand paint. I did some testing and comparison when first switching to this brand. First, I think that you will find slight shade variations in original Blue paint on valve covers/air cleaners.
I looked at a lot of them and determined that the Dupli-Color DE 1606 was the closest to the original color and looks really good. The DE 1621 just seems too purple.
Also, please do not go by the color of the cap on this brand. It is darker than the actual paint color.
I have to change the picture, but here is the link:
http://www.virginiaclassicmustang.com/65-73-FORD-CORPORATE-BLUE-ENGINE-PAINT-P3365.aspx
-
Just thought I'd share my thoughts and findings on this for future readers. My 66 289 still had a lot of the original paint on it and i have been looking over several posts trying to decide which blue is the same as the original paint on my 66. Unfortunately, there are too many posts that contradict each other and I couldn't really find anything that said one was right or wrong. I have easy access to Duplicolor products in my area and Krylon is a great product, in my opinion. The 3 blues they offer are worlds apart and only one of them could be the correct blue (or at least the closest match) for my 66. First of all I purchased a can of each...
1606 is NOT what is on my car. 1606 is the dark Ford blue used later in the decade and into the early seventies. That was easily ruled out as a match for my 66.
1601 is labeled as Ford blue, but it is way too "blue". Not sure if and when Ford used this color, but is is not an early sixties color, it is not a mid 60's shade, and it is certainly not the darker color used in the late 60's and early seventies.
1621, labeled as "Old Ford Blue," was the perfect match as far as Duplicolor went.
National Parts Depot listed 1606 as the correct blue and when I looked at it, it was obviously way too dark I ruled that it could only be the corporate dark blue used later in the decade. NPD didn't even carry the 1621 and I was not comfortable buying anything else they had listed as correct for fear of getting the wrong color. The correct color, 1621 is labeled as Old Ford Blue and I just assumed before trying it, that it was the lighter blue used early in the 60's and on some of the 260CI valve covers and air cleaners, but that was not the case. It is the perfect match to the medium blue used on my 66.
-
As often happens we get differing opinions - Have shot and compared 20 different brands to come up with my recommendations when compared to original blues in 66 -71 from the different engine plants. Bottom line is often what the judges will allow with no deductions (think we ding two cars annually in our classes) or some of us have even higher standards ;)
-
Bought some Eastwood dark blue 51623ZP & it is a lighter shade than the original color- I was just touching uo spots on my 390 heads where the paint burns off on the exhaust ports on the heads- color looks like the 51682ZP Old Ford blue which is a lighter shade. Any help would be great.
-
after the heads have been thru several heat cycles i would not expect any paint to match. even from the original batch. you may have to paint more than you planned to get good results.
-
How old is the existing paint? All paints will degrade with heat cycling and yellow with time. This especially so with enamel paints and less so with modern high temperature paints and polyurethanes. So it could be just a case of painting and waiting for it to come good. The old enamels will also degrade and change color with age (just see how bad varnishes age) and even if you don't use your car, the chances are that and original Ford Blue color won't look like it did when it first came from the factory. Then there's the problem with the differences in tinters that everyone uses these days that plays havoc with color tones....
It could just be that the guys at Eastwood had a bad day and mis-tinted that batch slightly. if you're unsure or unhappy get them to verify the color, it won't be a big job for them to check.
Brad.
-
Checking the batch numbers- sent me the dark blue but looks like the lighter blue so something has to be wrong & as usual I was all set to use it & was waiting for it to do a project.
-
Might be that Eastwoods colors (never used them my self) are just "off"
IMHO always found big blocks slightly darker then small block blues
-
They are sending me a new can.
-
Jeff, in your experience, was the color difference there when the engines were first built or could it be due to big blocks generating more heat and therefore degrading the paint more, to produce the darker blue.
-
Jeff, in your experience, was the color difference there when the engines were first built or could it be due to big blocks generating more heat and therefore degrading the paint more, to produce the darker blue.
More likely IMO because they were built at a different engine plant where the paint may be a slightly different formula.
-
Might be that Eastwoods colors (never used them my self) are just "off"
I don't use Eastwood's "designated to a manufacture paints" (like engine colors) or their 'under hood black (too glossy - make the "Bow Tie" guys happy though), but I do use their reflective aluminum (for inside tail light buckets), carb touch up and high temp exhaust paints, mostly on non-concourse cars.
Jim
-
New batch same as before :( Will send them a painted piece to show them the right color.
-
share your advice. What would you do?
Just before motor and transmission install, I checked one more time on engine color. Looks like my engine builder picked a medium blue rather than dark ford blue. Which is the right color? Would you take the engine apart to paint it dark blue or paint the accessories to match the medium blue?
It's a numbers matching car that could be a good candidate for concourse showing in the future.
-
share your advice. What would you do?
Just before motor and transmission install, I checked one more time on engine color. Looks like my engine builder picked a medium blue rather than dark ford blue. Which is the right color? Would you take the engine apart to paint it dark blue or paint the accessories to match the medium blue?
It's a numbers matching car that could be a good candidate for concourse showing in the future.
I can't speak for Chuck but if it were my engine and strictly going by the choices presented and the way the paint looks in my laptop monitor, the can in the middle looks best of the three. The one on the right is too light and the one on the left doesn't look right ether
-
share your advice. What would you do?
Since your going with the rattle can - why guess? Instead just purchase one of the products already identified in prior threads and go with those suggestions
Looks like you went to the Dupli-Color products already
-
We handle the DupliColor brand of spray paint in these cans. I gathered up quite a few original valve covers and air cleaners in order to choose the closest matching color. First, I will say that the colors slightly varied over production times.
Second, and most importantly, those caps on the cans are not an exact match to what is inside.
Anyway, in my opinion, the DE1606 is the closest to what starting being used in 1966.
-
We handle the DupliColor brand of spray paint in these cans. I gathered up quite a few original valve covers and air cleaners in order to choose the closest matching color. First, I will say that the colors slightly varied over production times.
Second, and most importantly, those caps on the cans are not an exact match to what is inside.
Anyway, in my opinion, the DE1606 is the closest to what starting being used in 1966.
+1 on the 1606
-
1606 +2
-
Chuck would stare at what has already been painted until the color changed to the color he is imagining in his head.
-
Thanks 'y'all. Chuck stared at it but nothing happened, so I scrubbed it down with lacquer thinner, wax/grease remover and repainted it. It looks great! Now to put on the accessories and install it...
-
Next time you paint an engine get a set of old valve covers or completely cover the part of the head under the valve covers. I've seen people paint that part of the head only to have the paint eventually chip off and partially clog the pick-up screen in the oil pan and clog oil passages.
-
Did you repaint with the 1606? From my monitor it looks much better.
-
Yup. 1606 paint is much darker than were it started.
Had my knee replaced about a month ago, chomping at the bit to drop the motor in. It's sitting on the floor taunting me every time I go out...lol.
(http://)
-
Hello! At the risk or being told to look elsewhere, I will wade into the much discussed "what is the correct color for my engine?".
Of course I've read a few threads on engine colors here. Very good stuff. However its a little more complicated down here in Australia as we don't have access to products like Plastikote 224 and even the USA PPG codes don't always translate into the local stock well. Likewise the Duplicolor DE 1621 is hard to find here too (although the brand itself does exist in OZ). My reading so far, has convinced me that my 68' does not use the darker 69' onwards paint, nor the very light blue seen on some early 60's ford engines. True? Please correct me if not the case.
So anyway I bought 3 shades of locally available VHT Ford engine paint (Ford COMP Blue, OLD Ford blue and NEW Ford blue), and tested them on some sheet metal, then compared them to some aged original looking paint remnants on my block AND a spare 68' block I had lying around. The closest of these by far, was "OLD FORD BLUE" (VHT code SP153). I noted that that name has been applied to a couple of other manufacturers offerings, including the often suggested Plastikote 224 and Duplicolor 1621 . The VHT Old Ford Blue (SP153) looks very close to the Duplicolor 1621 in one attachment I posted here. Which gave me some hope that its OK.
Unfortunately I find my iPhone camera's photos only shows up poorly on the web, so not a lot of use posting them up. However I have attached 2 head photos using VHT OLD FORD BLUE, and the POR chart.
Anyway after all that I was then told they were ALL wrong, you need the POR15 engine paint "Ford Corporate Blue". Great. :-)
So with some hassle and expense I bought some and sprayed my water pump, timing cover and thermostat housing. The paint itself leaves a lovely finish, (albeit its not as forgiving as VHT rattle cans), but I cant help thinking its just too dark! To complicate matters a new Scott Drake 67' air cleaner I have on the shelf is another color again! And I understand the 67' & 68' engines are the same colour? Is Scott Drake right with their colour? (I mean to say, they aren't exactly known for always being dead nuts on). Its a different shade from any of the colors I've seen touted as being correct. As an aside, should the air cleaner base and its engine be the same shade of blue? Always seems to be that way when I see other 68' cars.
So has anyone here tried that POR15 paint? Opinions? Based on the web photos of parts painted with DE1621 I can't help thinking the VHT Old Ford Blue is pretty close for my March 68' S code's engine.
I've also noted a few photos of finished 67 / 68 S code engine bays like the one attached, that seem pretty close to the Old Ford Blue...
-
The 'Old Ford Blue' formula must have changed, it used to be a lot lighter.
PPG DAR 13358 is the correct paint code, but even that could have some variance. Although, paint application at the engine plant was quick and usually light, which translates to different appearance of the paint.
NPD sells a matched version of 13358 in a spray can that is an engine enamel. I know it's not catalyzed, but it's a good substitute for those that may not have spray gun equipment or facilities.
-
I had a restorer friend use POR 15 corporate blue paint on a engine for a client. I was speechless when I saw how off the color /shade were on his freshly installed 428CJ engine. I didn't know what to say . Rather then listen to me prior to that about the POR ,he felt compelled to take the word of the POR rep on how exact it was over my opinion. The restorer is a thinks he is superior ,Engineer degree, re invents the wheel etc. you know the type. Of course it took deductions at a concours event before he believed me. Long story short he had no idea what he didn't know (I saw the disdain for me every time i pointed things out which he requested) and eventually freaked out with how many issues to fix and left the client high and dry. Client took it to another shop which I had previously suggested (he thought they were too high before) and had the engine removed stripped and repainted with the ppg . All is right with the world. :D
-
- (this) - restorer is a thinks he is superior ,Engineer degree, re invents the wheel etc. you know the type.
Some of us engineering "types" take offence to your comment. My name is on several patents, not wheels - but as important (think communications satellite) as co-inventor. I'm that type. There are others on this forum that fit that profile.
Jim
-
Some of us engineering "types" take offence to your comment. My name is on several patents, not wheels - but as important (think communications satellite) as co-inventor. I'm that type. There are others on this forum that fit that profile.
Jim
Jim ,no offense meant to you. Let me clarify,not meant to apply to all but just the small percentage that make up that closed minded ,better and smarter then everyone else stereotype of those that are. Some doctors (small percentage) fit that profile too. Just trying to paint the picture of the closed minded superior mindset of the person I am referring to for the purpose of the post.
-
So has anyone here tried that POR15 paint? Opinions? .................
Have not tried it for any of my projects - found what worked for me so no reason to consider the product. Have seen it on others and was not impressed.
Remember you can't compare pictures to tell what the colors and shine look like. Way too many variables when we look at posted or published pictures, digital cameras, settings and so forth. Spray samples and comparing them to original painted parts from the same year and engine plant is the only way to get close IMHO. Yers I understand this can be difficult for some. Just one reason the forums were created so we can share our individual findings, experiments and trials
-
Thanks Bob, at least I know POR15 isn't the right color, that's something. I'll stop using it.
On the other side of the discussion, how about the color my heads are painted? As Jeff's post rightly points out, it's hard to tell from a web photo, but does it look ball part at least?
Lastly should the air cleaner base be the same shade as the engine?
Thanks to all.
BTW I'm also one of those guys with a degree! 2 in fact, (makes me twice as silly). :-)
However im the first to say I met some of the stupidest people ever at University!
I like to use the Duke of Wellington's quote when people tell me someone who graduated uni must be smart:
"Being born in a barn doesn't make one a horse".
-
Lastly should the air cleaner base be the same shade as the engine?
We don't know (that I'm aware of) for sure where the air cleaner was painted. But from observations they typically are an incredible IMHO close match (lid, snorkel and so on) to the engine possibly suggesting they were painted at the engine plant.
-
Thanks Jeff, that's what I figured.
Am I right in saying 67-68' cars used this kind of shade though?
(Old ford blue / plasticote 224 etc)
-
Thanks Jeff, that's what I figured.
Am I right in saying 67-68' cars used this kind of shade though?
(Old ford blue / plasticote 224 etc)
What sized engines?
Why ask? Its just me - I've noticed that for me the FE engines were often slightly darker than the small blocks possibly since they were painted at different places a slightly different mix or supplier may have been the cause though the PPG color is still the base or accept standard.
For small blocks and 6 cylinders I always found that the Plasticote was the closest for me but haven't used rattle cans and years and their current product might be slightly different. Sorry for all the wavering just want to be specific in my response ;)
-
Nope that's totally fine, I would do the same.
The big thing for me is that its in the ballpark for 1968 390's. In other words that it isn't the later dark blue of the 70's or the light sky blue of the early years. Beyond that I'm not super fussy as it seems there was variation, as you point out.
However I get a little confused when I see a post like this; http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=14476.0
Which shows a 67 390GT motor with what appears to be a darker shade of blue than the typical "old ford blue" I am using, or 224, although not as dark as the 69' onwards cars. Even then when I edit those images (they were underexposed) the color becomes closer to mine...
However I would say that motor is closer to Rustoleum's 298946 "old ford blue" than either Plastikote 224, VHT "old ford blue" or Duplicolor's DE1621. Heres a swatch of the Rustoleum F Y I. I only ask as that poster requested advice on correctness from you guys and no one mentioned the color... ???
BTW I finally took and uploaded some comparisons between fresh VHT old ford blue (over VHT primer) and the POR15 corp blue items.
Pretty darn obvious...
So Jeff / Bob, can I ask, if you were me, which rattle can color would you choose for your own 68' FE motor?
-
BTW I finally took and uploaded some comparisons between fresh VHT old ford blue (over VHT primer) and the POR15 corp blue items.
Pretty darn obvious...
So Jeff / Bob, can I ask, if you were me, which rattle can color would you choose for your own 68' FE motor?
Give us and viewers a hint :) if you please
Which one (timing cover verses block color) is which paint. No reason to guess but would guess that the block is the POR15
-
Give us and viewers a hint :) if you please
Which one (timing cover verses block color) is which paint. No reason to guess but would guess that the block is the POR15
Monitors make it difficult to make a determination. In person the shade may appear completely different. Jeff convinced me of that years ago. This is a case in point. The POR product that I have seen is typically much darker and a different shade as well compared to most any of the rattle can paints or the PPG that I am used to using. I have not used the VHT product but have heard of others without issue. I cant comment on the VHT color equivalency . The engine paints don't typically have to have a primer used . If I had the engine out of the car I would use the PPG. If you are going to take a short cut (because the rattle can paint doesn't hold up as good) I will let others suggest a rattle can product.
-
So Jeff / Bob, can I ask, if you were me, which rattle can color would you choose for your own 68' FE motor?
If it were me the choice would be neither. Sorry I know that will not help but as mentioned the computer screen will at best only provide (between the two) which one MIGHT be closer but that does not still mean its my choice. Have seen many paints where in the shade they look OK but if the car at the show is situated where the sun lights up the engine it can look purple or just off. Your not comparing each of your choices to any originally paint part in the picture and this is an important decision and like body color, oversprays and such not something that is easy to undo once you have the car together and I'm sure that is why your trying to take the time and make a good choice.
Dupli-Color spray paints for Ford engines is one of the rattle cans I used 20 plus years ago that I found was close to what I was seeing on original big blocks from your time period. I have no recent experiences with their products so don't know if they changed them over time.
Sorry can't provide a thumbs up on either of your two choices given the parameters we have here
-
Give us and viewers a hint :) if you please
Which one (timing cover verses block color) is which paint. No reason to guess but would guess that the block is the POR15
Sorry I guessed many readers would have used or seen the POR-15 Ford Corp Blue. My bad.
The Block is an older batch of VHT "Old Ford Blue" rattle can, over VHT engine primer, and the timing cover is the POR-15 Ford Corp Blue.
As you can see its nowhere near the 67/68' Ford colours, IMHO closer to the 69' onwards darker blues if anything.
I totally agree monitors and even digital cameras makes getting an appreciation of the actual color difficult.
Even within the same product things change a lot. I recently bought some new cans of the VHT "Old Ford Blue" color and when I compared them to the older batches they were (I'm pleased to say) a nicer shade of blue and much closer to the claimed "concours correct" engine bays I've seen from 67/68'. So now that the engine is almost complete I've masked and over-sprayed with the new VHT batch. The old and new VHT batch colors are maybe 1/2 a shade apart, but its noticeable.
The attached photo is the new batch paint. Once again iPhone camera and monitor's being what they are. Interestingly a friend who had the remnants of a Duplicolor Ford 1621 rattle can, sprayed some panel steel as a sample and brought it over. Held next to the block its seems to be close to being a match. I should have grabbed a side by side photo but that's old age I guess!
My original intention was to draw attention to how far off the POR-15 Corp Blue colour was, rather than ask for a thumbs up. But I'm please the comparison photo is at least out there for others to see. Its not cheap paint that POR-15, and its also a bit tricky to apply compared to VHT rattle cans, and its not as heat resistant either. In fact the only thing it was supposed to have going for it in my books was the color, but even that's off! I also don't like the uber lustre finish that seems to fill in casting grains with even lightly sprayed coats. Hardly a factory look in my view. But unless you've seen it how can a prospective purchaser ever know? Anyway blasted it all off and repainted with the VHT "Old Ford Blue" now, so lesson learned.
PS: Apologies for the drain cock in the block, just temporary until its verified as running OK etc, then the glycol and AMK plug will go in.
-
Used the VHT/Dupli Color myself on my 66. As far as durability its been about 2 years now with occasional driving with only minimal touchups with a fine brush here and there. Only issue I ran into was 1 can of the 3 that I had purchased was a mile off as far as color shade was concerned. Had to buy additional cans and do spray outs first to confirm proper color consistency. Ive always felt that it appeared to be a bit too dark but was very happy with its appearance. Like previously noted the color will look different inside and out, when the sun hits it Etc
-
I've been using PlastiKote's High Heat Engine Paint stuff for the past 20 years with a high rate of success. It's quality stuff...and I think that the colors are pretty accurate. ../and it sure wears like iron!! PS: Don't forget to use their Engine Primer for really tough wear... I just love the stuff.
Just a suggestion!
:o)
Tony K.
-
I've been using PlastiKote's High Heat Engine Paint stuff for the past 20 years with a high rate of success. It's quality stuff...and I think that the colors are pretty accurate. ../and it sure wears like iron!! PS: Don't forget to use their Engine Primer for really tough wear... I just love the stuff.
As another suggestion remember that originally no primer was used and its application, along with applying too much paint will lead to produce an unoriginal finish and look. We see allot of engines both rattle canned and painted that come out looking like they were dipped in paint/plastic whick really stand out as incorrect
-
Used POR-15 Ford Corporate Blue. The first spray came out tacky so we diluted it with mineral spirits (as a reducer) and it went on perfect the second and third coat. The reducer really helped the paint lay down better. Check out the pictures. And the color looks dead on to me.
Pic 1: Me putting on first coat
Pic 2: How it looks after first coat with no mineral spirit as reducer. See the tackiness?
Pic 3: After 2-3 coats with mineral spirits as a reducer. This was in a semi-low light area.
Pic 4: Final product in a very high-lit area without any natural light.
PIc 5: Updated on 1 April 2018. I wanted to add another picture in natural light. Note: The engine is not even close to concours yet, still have lots to do, but this picture is simply to look at the POR 15 Ford Corporate Blue with a reducer sprayed on a 1965 289 HiPo.
-
Used POR-15 Ford Corporate Blue. The first spray came out tacky so we diluted it with mineral spirits (as a reducer) and it went on perfect the second and third coat. The reducer really helped the paint lay down better. Check out the pictures. And the color looks dead on to me.
Pic 1: Me putting on first coat
Pic 2: How it looks after first coat with no mineral spirit as reducer. See the tackiness?
Pic 3: After 2-3 coats with mineral spirits as a reducer. This was in a semi-low light area.
Pic 4: Final product in a very high-lit area
It is hard to determine if correct shade in my monitor. It depends on lighting and the monitor. For instance in one of your pictures of the painted block the shade appeared to be more like the Ford light blue . In another picture it appeared a little darker. Based on that I for one couldn't make a call one way or the other.
-
For those in the future struggling to match paint. I pulled this information from deadnutson.com
Ford Corp Blue Paint Info:
PPG Delstar Ditzler DAR-TCP 13358 (H) acrylic enamel
DXR 80 Delthane Ultra Urethane Hardener
Ditzler DX 265 All Purpose Flatting Base (25% to 30%)
DTR-601 Reducer (HVLP gun x 2)
Good rattle can black paint for console: SEM 15013 Landau Black Color Coat
http://www.deadnutson.com/page/page/4586632.htm
-
Another factor to consider is that these motors were painted 50 years ago. The paint has aged, been exposed to high and low temperatures (many cycles too), and was subjected to various petroleum products and other chemicals. So comparing new paint to original parts does not guarantee a match to the original color when it was fresh. Plus, the original paint may have varied slighty from batch to batch, especially if multiple paint suppliers were used (I don't know if that happened).
-
For those in the future struggling to match paint. I pulled this information from deadnutson.com
Ford Corp Blue Paint Info:
PPG Delstar Ditzler DAR-TCP 13358 (H) acrylic enamel
DXR 80 Delthane Ultra Urethane Hardener
Ditzler DX 265 All Purpose Flatting Base (25% to 30%)
DTR-601 Reducer (HVLP gun x 2)
Good rattle can black paint for console: SEM 15013 Landau Black Color Coat
http://www.deadnutson.com/page/page/4586632.htm
I hope you used this PPG product and repainted your engine block. The PPG paint is what I have used and was happy with the results.The POR 15 products shade of blue is noticeably different then what was used at Ford from the times I have seen it in person.
-
'The POR 15 products shade of blue is noticeably different then what was used at Ford from the times I have seen it in person.'
agree with bob here. not the proper shade of blue.
-
PPG paint has been the standard and the most widely used, in my observations, over the last 30 or so years. No reason to reinvent the wheel especially since it can result in something that will stand out in the crowd of other cars you are likely going to be parked next to.
-
Used POR-15 Ford Corporate Blue. The first spray came out tacky so we diluted it with mineral spirits (as a reducer) and it went on perfect the second and third coat. The reducer really helped the paint lay down better. Check out the pictures. And the color looks dead on to me.
Pic 1: Me putting on first coat
Pic 2: How it looks after first coat with no mineral spirit as reducer. See the tackiness?
Pic 3: After 2-3 coats with mineral spirits as a reducer. This was in a semi-low light area.
Pic 4: Final product in a very high-lit area without any natural light.
PIc 5: Updated on 1 April 2018. I wanted to add another picture in natural light. Note: The engine is not even close to concours yet, still have lots to do, but this picture is simply to look at the POR 15 Ford Corporate Blue with a reducer sprayed on a 1965 289 HiPo.
Wouldn't a '65 Hi-Po be black? ;)
-
yep.
-
Wouldn't a '65 Hi-Po be black? ;)
Ford documents indicate that Ford would have completed the change over to blue by Aug 15 of 1965 if memory serves. With that said we know of instances that seem to contradict that. Possibly all new engines built from that time on or maybe it took longer to use up supplies I am not sure. Anyway there is document evidence to suggest that very late production built 65 cars could have had blue engines . I wouldn't bet my life that all 65 production engines were black given the factory circumstantial evidence .
-
Of course these would likely be cars built in the last weeks of production if it did take place and even proving a car was built during that time can be a challenge.
Don't know if anyone has collected the engine assembly dates from the ID tags on the engines that are claimed to be originally blue from 65 production cars. For the builder, unless you have proof, the general consensus it's likely the best choice. Oddities and the possibility of their existence are fun to discuss but go with the common accepted practices unless you want to be that guy and have something to back it up.
Not sure if we'll ever be able to figure it out for sure - but sometimes it the journey that leads us to new understandings or reinforce what we already know and accept :)
-
Anybody used Eastwood's 2K engine paint to check color correctness? This is a two stage paint that has the same durability as "spray gun" paint. I have seen the PPG formula here for engine paint/color but not everybody has access to this equipment and regular rattle can (VHT,Plasticote) doesn't have two stage durability.
-
489 views and nobody has used the eastwood 2k? I guess I'll buy a can and check it against the plastikote 224.
-
Haven't used it since I didn't like the results/tint.
Just my take on the product
-
You talking Corperate Blue? I used it and liked the color, shine and ease of use. I had run out of my PPG paint and used that. Would use it again.
-
We had this in another forum. The color wasn't correct and I wouldn't use Plasticolor. What matched my O/E paint samples in a spray can closest was Dupli-color DE1621, Ford Old Blue. The other they offer is much too dark which is ford Dark Blue and the Ford Light Blue is far too light. Make sure your surfaces are spotless. I laid down four coats of color and their high temp clear coat. I prefer a little more gloss because dust doesn't seem to adhere as easily and grease wipes off easier.
-Keith
-
I realize this is an old post, but I'm also on the search for the correct color for my early 1966 Mustang 289 engine. I bought Dupli-Color 1606 and my engine is not that dark blue. I'm having it rebuilt and know for certain that it hasn't been worked on at this level since the factory, so all indicators show a much lighter blue than 1606 (Ford Dark Blue). I'm going to buy a can of 1621, as it looks like the closest to what I have now.
The attached photo shows the cap of 1606 next to three of my engine parts, and the lower right is 1606 painted onto a toploader. It's clearly too dark.
-
Since you brought the thread back up to the top it gave me an opportunity to add to the title so that it better described the focus. Of course there are at least a half dozen threads that suggest not using the pray/rattle cans but instead produces that reproduce the original color better as well as hold up longer to age, wear and exposure.
One of the issues with dated threads (this one is almost ten years old) and post is that companies go out of business, change formulas or product is not longer legal to apply or purchase.
-
50 plus of weather and heat cycles certainly has an effect of color as well
8 years has to be contender for longest resurrection?
I might also add the cap is not indicative of the color in the can.
-
Like Pete says, the color tends to fade over the decades so that it fools you into thinking it was lighter originally than it really was. Old Ford Blue is correct for 1964 1/2 260 valve covers / air cleaner. 1966 - through something like 1978 is Ford Dark Corporate Blue.
-
Color variants also caused by thin/thick application at the engine plant.
-
Here is a 460 valve cover I painted using the eastwood 2k engine paint. This is pic was taken on my front porch with natural light.
-
So what is the current (2020) / correct line of Ford corporate blue catalyzed engine paint? Omni?
-
A side by side, with some of the other choices, would make an opinion a bit easier. Your valve cover example looks a bit light ? I am using the ' FORD Dark Blue ' Dupli-Color' engine enamel 1606 and satisfied with the color and longevity. Appreciate your investigation. Brian
-
Yea I can't find the plastikote 224 locally. Found it online. I found this video very informative. www.hotrod.com/articles/get-right-ford-engine-paint/
-
Yea I can't find the plastikote 224 locally. Found it online. I found this video very informative. www.hotrod.com/articles/get-right-ford-engine-paint/
Yes used the Platikote for years and was always a good match. Moved on to two part paint for longevity.
See our own Charles Turner got a mention in the video clip :)
-
Went to PPG auto paint store in Savannah,GA. Bought a quart and mixing components for OMNI 13358. See attached pics. The Eastwood is close. Maybe a shade or two lighter? You be the judge. The first picture is under BRIGHT LED lighting in my garage. The second picture is next to the valve cover under the same LED lighting. The third picture is outside on the front porch and the last is the OMNI can with formula. It is AMAZING how much difference there is in monitors/colors. I received an order from Dead nuts on today. I bought the steering column bushing for the reverse lockout rod. Looking at the monitor it looks lime green on their website. In actuality it looks like a light olive green. Watching the Hotrod video on engine paint the PPG and OMNI look like they are royal blue. What's in the OMNI can is definitely NOT royal blue.
-
Check out this Bob Perkins video on low mile Boss 429 under carriage detailing. Look at the engine color. video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=yfp-t&p=bob+perkins+extreme+mustang+undercarriage+detailing#id=1&vid=7c28462cfd4d0ee00d05b8d1bea35578&action=click
-
The more I look at it the more I think the Eastwood is spot on!
-
................ Looking at the monitor it looks lime green on their website. In actuality it looks like a light olive green. Watching the Hotrod video on engine paint the PPG and OMNI look like they are royal blue. What's in the OMNI can is definitely NOT royal blue.
Yes the challenge and problem of using these sources IMHO as a guide. Too many variables in the camera settings, lighting, your monitor settings and so on.
-
So looking for comments between the two samples. The engine parts are painted in Eastwood 2k engine paint and the sample of the open can of OMNI, which is the gold standard. How close do you think the two are?
-
No way to tell unless you have painted parts of each to compare. Wet paint often differs from dry paint.
So looking for comments between the two samples. The engine parts are painted in Eastwood 2k engine paint and the sample of the open can of OMNI, which is the gold standard. How close do you think the two are?
-
Ok well that's the next step then. I got some overspray on one of the valve covers. I guess I'll strip one and paint it with the OMNI and compare.
-
Went to harbor freight and bought a $35 spray gun with a regulator to finish this comparison. So here is a side by side comparison between the Eastwood 2k and the OMNI. The OMNI is definitely more blue. The Eastwood is kind of "muted". So the best way to go is to go to an automotive paint store and buy the OMNI. The OMNI looks GREAT!!
-
Hi, for a 99.99999999999999999999999999999% 1966 Mustang V8 Engine Paint Match, you cannot beat National Parts Depot's Product called "Paint, Engine Enamel, Ford Corporate Blue". Go to www.npdlink.com and do a search for item # AP-EB. Be careful in choosing the right product as they carry another item that is a slightly different color and that item has a part number that is AP-EBx where the x is another letter. Be sure you look at the can that only has 2 letters after the "AP-".
Good luck with your project!
Ron G
captg@cox.net
Las Vegas, NV
-
Stumbled across this today. Although it's a 2018 MT article, it does appear to have some useful information about color variations
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/get-right-ford-engine-paint/
-
Excellent video! This confirms my choice of the lighter Ford Corporate Blue.
-
Excellent video! This confirms my choice of the lighter Ford Corporate Blue.
I was hard for me to let your incomplete statement hang out there without some clarification for others reading. It appears your mind was made up back in reply #9 when you wrote you were working on a 66 Mustang. For others expect push back and deductions in concours venues if you paint a 66 Mustang 289 engine the Lighter Ford Corporate Blue.
-
Yes, that confirms that I chose the correct color. I chose the lighter Delstar blue and not the darker Dupli-Color blue
Seeing that my 1966 motor had not been rebuilt before, and the block, intake, pan, valve covers, and air cleaner assembly all matched the Delstar blue, I feel confident I chose correctly. Nothing I had matched the darker Duplicate-Color blue.
I?m not saying that color might not have changed over time (and heat), but everything that was blue was the same blue, so I felt confident in my choice. This video only confirmed the decision that I made.
Does that clarify?
-
Since this is a very old thread, I thought I would add that the Duplacolor 1606 use to be the go-to match. A few years ago, they changed 1606 to a darker blue. Duplacolor still has a good match, and I cannot remember the number, but it is called old Ford blue.
-
Yes, that confirms that I chose the correct color. I chose the lighter Delstar blue and not the darker Dupli-Color blue
Seeing that my 1966 motor had not been rebuilt before, and the block, intake, pan, valve covers, and air cleaner assembly all matched the Delstar blue, I feel confident I chose correctly. Nothing I had matched the darker Duplicate-Color blue.
I?m not saying that color might not have changed over time (and heat), but everything that was blue was the same blue, so I felt confident in my choice. This video only confirmed the decision that I made.
Does that clarify?
Just as a question for discussion and reflection. How many unrestored 66's from the same time period have you documented as being the same color tint? Surely your car would have not had a different color that all the other cars built that day. Also having a "different" color/tint would require all the other plants and suppliers providing parts (example air cleaner) much have had the same paint color that arrived at the car plant all at the same time.
-
Sorry, I don?t know anything about that. I?m not tying to influence others, just simply to understand for my car and my use. I do have another friend with a 1966 unrestored Mustang and his engine color is similar to mine. That?s all that I know. I?m not an authority, nor claim to be one. I do a lot of research and rely on the work of other professionals (like the video above). I appreciate their work and knowledge. As I said, I was encouraged by the confirmation of the Motortrend video.