ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: C5ZZKGT on October 12, 2011, 02:18:05 PM
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Would anyone have a picture or 2 showing a correct stamp/location for my car?
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Wouldn't be any paint OK stamps, It would have had a P sticker on the cowl.
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OK, Thanks! (I believe that I know who you are, and highly regard your opinions)
At Waldorf, they deducted 1 point and wrote "Incorrect paint stamps"-don't you think that they should have been kind enough to just either tell me or write down that "July 1965 Dearborn cars don't use paint stamps"
I have had my paint stamps questioned before but not deducted for until Waldorf-my restorer elected to have a stamp made with "MY" last name as the inspector's name, I thought that may be the judges didn't like that....
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"my restorer elected to have a stamp made with "MY" last name as the inspector's name, I thought that may be the judges didn't like that"
bingo!!! that was the deduction.
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OK, Thanks! (I believe that I know who you are, and highly regard your opinions)
At Waldorf, they deducted 1 point and wrote "Incorrect paint stamps"-don't you think that they should have been kind enough to just either tell me or write down that "July 1965 Dearborn cars don't use paint stamps"
Most of the time we do not have the time nor space to write a long specific description to every deduction. This then places the responsibility with the owner to call or contact one of the judges to get more information if its needed. This can normally be done over the phone, in person on Sunday at the show or email
I have had my paint stamps questioned before but not deducted for until Waldorf-my restorer elected to have a stamp made with "MY" last name as the inspector's name, I thought that may be the judges didn't like that....
Since the paint inspector stamp was not like the original its a pretty easy deduction for a judge to make. Have a couple of restorers that like to do it - and of course they are always starting out every show with a deduction :(
Their choice
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FRED, HIT IT ON THE HEAD
ALSO, it was a NJ style of inspector stamp on a Dearborn car.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
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"my restorer elected to have a stamp made with "MY" last name as the inspector's name, I thought that may be the judges didn't like that"
bingo!!! that was the deduction.
OK, Let me get this straight: You guys didn't like the fact that there WAS a stamp there, OR was it the use of "MY" last name?? If it were a car from a plant where the stamp WAS correct and had "MY" last name on it would it still have received a deduction? IF this is the case then what name is acceptable?
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FRED, HIT IT ON THE HEAD
ALSO, it was a NJ style of inspector stamp on a Dearborn car.
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.
Phill, Just for giggles do you agree with MGM that there should be NO stamp on a Dearborn car??
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If it were a car from a plant where the stamp WAS correct and had "MY" last name on it would it still have received a deduction?
If I have my birthday stamped on my data plate as my VIN, do you think I should get a deduction?
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Right. A July '65 Dearborn stamp would be either the seldom seen "Basreball Diamond" ink stamp on the upper shoulder of the Driver's side fender (Usually to the right of the last fender bolt - the one closest to the cowl), or the Red or Black "P" decal on the cowl.
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Right. A July '65 Dearborn stamp would be either the seldom seen "Basreball Diamond" ink stamp on the upper shoulder of the Driver's side fender (Usually to the right of the last fender bolt - the one closest to the cowl), or the Red or Black "P" decal on the cowl.
If you don't mind, would you post a couple of pictures of original late 65 Dearborn cars with an ink stamp. I would really like to add those to my reference folder, since I've never seen an example before.
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My whole point is this guys: If the judges felt that my stamps were incorrect, then they should have been able to tell me what is being said here now in a private Email, but that question didn't get answered.
One person says NO stamp, anouther says it should be a baseball diamond shape in a completely different place than my "incorrect" stamps are, I haven't been able to go to enough shows to see any cars build around the same time frame that mine was so honestly I have no clue as to what is right, nor do I understand why my restorer who is pretty experianced elected to apply a SJ plant stamp on my Dearborn car.......
I have also asked for clairification on the deducted points for incorrect finishes on the undercarriage (5 points) and the judges have asked ME for pictures of it to refresh themselves.......
These judges actually spent very little time glancing at the underside of my car to make this deduction.
Folks, I am not upset at the outcome of the judging, but at the lack of explanation on such a number of deducted points, seems way to "casual" of a deduction to me.
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Right. A July '65 Dearborn stamp would be either the seldom seen "Basreball Diamond" ink stamp on the upper shoulder of the Driver's side fender (Usually to the right of the last fender bolt - the one closest to the cowl),...........
You have some pictures of an ink stamp being used on cars from 65 Dearborn - #778000- and up? Would be interested in know what the cars VIN was. Don't have anything that late in my records
I've found more of the original ones stamped closer to centered when applied to the drivers side fender. But sure location varied depending on who stamped it most of the time
One example
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Paint%20Marks/Dearbornpaintinspbaseballdia.jpg)
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My whole point is this guys: If the judges felt that my stamps were incorrect, then they should have been able to tell me what is being said here now in a private Email, but that question didn't get answered.
One person says NO stamp, another says it should be a baseball diamond shape in a completely different place than my "incorrect" stamps are....
Think the problem with the discussion started with the lack of a projected build date of your car (you providing it or the second poster not asking for one) where the judges would have had this information available to them
OK, Let me get this straight: You guys didn't like the fact that there WAS a stamp there, ........
Without you posting a picture of the stamp or having seen it at the show being sure to 100% difficult but it the stamp was either a NJ or San Jose style then it was incorrect for the car. If it was a San Jose style stamp with a name it was incorrect even for a 65 San Jose car.
OR was it the use of "MY" last name?? If it were a car from a plant where the stamp WAS correct and had "MY" last name on it would it still have received a deduction? IF this is the case then what name is acceptable?
IMHO Only if your last name was the same as one of the inspectors at that plant during that time period. If there happened to be a paint inspector there and your last or first name matched (they didn't always use lasts names at San Jose - too many letters) then its a lucky coincidence just like the projected build date being the same as the owner's mothers, child, pet's birth date.
............do you agree with MGM that there should be NO stamp on a Dearborn car??
Since Mike owns 65 Dearborn car(s) with the ink stamp I'm pretty sure he misspoke (mistyped ;) Have taken pictures of those
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I'm sure Mike was referring to late 65 Dearborn cars, since the thread title noted July 65 Dearborn built cars. His coupe that has the stamps is a September or October 64 Dearborn car IIRC. His June 65 convertible has the P decal.
Hopefully Tony will back up his post with pictures of a June or July 65 Dearborn car with the ink stamps.
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How much later of a '65 car is there than a scheduled date of July 27th to be considered a "late '65" car?
-Geesh
Jeff, with respect there is plenty of room for the judges to have written "Late '65 cars from Dearborn DON'T use paint stamps" that would have been all I needed to go home and remove the 3 stamps from my car without further question.
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I Have not seen a paint OK stamp on any late build 65's from Dearborn.I can't say for sure when they stopped using the stamps and moved to the P label.My Aug 64 built Dearborn car dose have paint and final OK paint stamps (diamond shape).
I would like to see any late build Dearborn cars say March 65 or latter with paint stamps.
Mike
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Never seen a cutoff date or VIN-cutoff posted for the Dearborn Baseball Diamond stamps..but I am sure that there is one of course. Have seen many early '66's at shows with the Diamond stamps as well, but those were most likely restored vehicles. If someone knows of a "cut-off" date, Please share.. The only pic I have with a date is one with a Aug' 65 dated Dearborn fender. It is an original car. It is a "Final OK" stamp instead of a "Paint OK", but it at least shows that these stamps were factually used up to 8/24/65.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp3.jpg
Here are some more stamps...
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/fordDearbornpaintokstamp.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp4.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp.jpg
Wish I had more original car pics of these.. The others I have are invalid as they are from "restored" cars.
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Same pics from above...You just don't have to click on the links above..
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp3.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FordFINALOK600Stamp4.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/fordDearbornpaintokstamp.jpg)
1956 Ford Thunderbird Stamps...These were used on 1955-1957 Ford T-Birds. It looks like Dearborn used them for about 10 1/2 years.. on and off Note different #'s for Mustang..Don't know if they were inspector#'s or what...
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FORDFINALOK5657TBIRDSETgetatMACs.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj91/NEFaurora/FINAL%20OK%20stamp/FORDFINALOK5657TBIRDSETgetatMACs.jpg)
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You know, Looking again at the 2nd pic of the one with the Red Fender, It looks like a Repro stamp.. The "600" font is not quite right.. Not quite fat enough. The rest, The ones with the fatter "600" or "603" fonts are fatter, and are originals. That is what originals look like.
Tony K.
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It at least shows that these stamps were factually used up to 8/24/65.
I think it shows they were used around 8/24/64. ;)
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Point well taken..
I guess we'll never know... :P
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Point well taken..
I guess we'll never know... :P
Well....... I guess we can ;)
That one is reported to have been from the passenger side fender of 5F07A270685. At least that is how I have it labeled - one of Mike's cars. There are two other examples of the same inspector on his car that I've got
Your #2 (reddish fender) is indeed an attempt to reproduce the stamp Spacing and as mentioned, number font are incorrect IMHO
Your #3 I have listed as being described as a Jan 65 Dearborn car by the person that posted it.
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The #4 photo is from my Late JUNE 1966 unrestored coupe.
C5ZZKGT
it comes down to the fact that you or your restorer used a NJ paint inspector stamp on a dearborn car, so that is incorrect. No if or buts about it and does warrant a deduction on your judging sheet
i would encourage you to post a image of the stamp on your car, for others to see
Secondly your choose to use a surname on your inspector stamp that is your BARKLEY, whether that is a name used by a inspector at that time is highly debatable and was discussed with all judges at the time.
With regards to some of the deductions on the undercarriage, you lost points for oil leeks on many areas. Fuel pump, transmission, rear wheel cylinders etc and the undercarriage was lacking detail and dirty in areas. also from memory we deducted for the third member, not having natural machined surfaces in areas required.
As fred mentioned you to in his return email to yourself after you got you judging sheets backs;
you have a great looking car there........please take these comments as a means to make it even better.......
regards.
PHILL BERESFORD.
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA
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Phill, I'm trying to take the comments and deductions as a means to make my car even better, but I can't do it w/o help from you guys-you deducted for "incorrect finishes" on the undercarriage, you said nothing to me about my wheel cylinders leaking, as far as I know they are not leaking, and the "oil leaks" you are refering to are not leaks at all, they are still run0off of the stinking gear oil that my restorer elected to rub on all the natural phosphate & oil finishes-I guess that IS my fault for not getting it all off, you said nothing about the undercarriage being dirty or lacking detail-just "incorrect finishes"
Believe me I am interested in going over my car with a fine tooth comb to make it better but I think you guys were off base on some of the deductions.
I am not sore about "dropping" to Silver from a Gold award at Jax, I just need you guys to tell me what was incorrect with the finishes on the undercarriage.
Charles has said that in general judges are able to remember what items they deducted on shortly after the given show, I got my sheets asap, contacted Fred, and he couldn't remember what the deducted 5 points were for, so what do I do now?-I've got no way to "fix" something that I know nothing about.
I happen to disagree with the deduction for the 3rd member detailing, I feel that my restorer did that right, and that I have maintained it just fine. Thanks Again for your time!-Rick
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i would suggest you take the car to a friendly shop nearby that has a lift you can use for an hour or so. you can then take plenty of pics for us to refresh our memories. then we can go from there.
as for the rear axle (3rd member) i believe i stated the area where the deductions were made in my earlier p.m. the two scalloped areas on the lower sides. the oil that your restorer used for preservation made it seem as if there were massive leaks. i would use sharkhide or boeshield instead of the the oil. it will not leave that greasy look. i also put my phone number on the judging sheet and specifically asked you to call to discuss any issues you may have. that offer still stands.
the best time for me is in the evenings.......fred
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The Aug 24 dated fender is dffinatlly on my Aug 64 built coupe.
Mike
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I Have not seen a paint OK stamp on any late build 65's from Dearborn.I can't say for sure when they stopped using the stamps and moved to the P label.My Aug 64 built Dearborn car dose have paint and final OK paint stamps (diamond shape).
I would like to see any late build Dearborn cars say March 65 or latter with paint stamps.
Mike
Mike,
The picture below is from a 65 Dearborn car with a April 19 build date.....100 % sure of that. ;) It's later than March 65 but not much later. ;D
You have some pictures of an ink stamp being used on cars from 65 Dearborn - #778000- and up? Would be interested in know what the cars VIN was. Don't have anything that late in my records
I've found more of the original ones stamped closer to centered when applied to the drivers side fender. But sure location varied depending on who stamped it most of the time
One example
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Paint%20Marks/Dearbornpaintinspbaseballdia.jpg)