ConcoursMustang Forums

Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Body, Paint & Sealers => Topic started by: bryancobb on February 26, 2012, 11:40:22 AM

Title: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on February 26, 2012, 11:40:22 AM
Just finished the last coat of semigloss black on my MAR 66 Metuchen Convertible Top Frame.  I painted with PPG Concept and am VERRRY happy with the gloss level.

There's a lot of questions on gloss level.  From what I've seen on high end MCA restorations, this paint is perfect for the top frame and engine compartment.

I'll post some pictures out in the sun, as soon as it cures well.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3076.jpg)
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on February 26, 2012, 03:21:20 PM
Here's the pictures.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3080.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3077.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3081.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3079.jpg)
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN3078.jpg)
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2012, 07:55:31 PM
The paint finish looks nice.  Is that right out of the can or did you have to add flattener?

I have found the side pieces, all 3 sections, assembled before painting (except the latches.)  The bows were the only pieces painted separate, off the frame.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on February 26, 2012, 09:00:13 PM
Thanks Charles,

This is a Chrysler mixed color that is right out of the can.  The jobber added whatever flattener was needed to create the Chrysler color.
As you probabably know, Cocept is a PPG Catalyzed Polyurethane so it should be tough as nails. 

I painted my engine with Concept and have 5000 miles on it now and it looks brand new.

Bryan
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on February 26, 2012, 11:05:41 PM
I use concept for engine bays and interiors and other bits.  Mix my own flattener though.  Good stuff.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: tomtri66 on March 21, 2012, 06:40:17 PM
Brian,
Would you mind sharing the paint code for Concept you used for your engine.  1966 engine color seems to be controversial and I am trying to nail down what is correct.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on March 21, 2012, 11:22:57 PM
I will be GLAD to, but be aware I AM NO EXPERT and my car has never been judged.
I'll scan the label in the next few days.

I can't find the thread right now on here where I got the PPG Code.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on March 21, 2012, 11:36:46 PM
I found it.

I had the jobber mix me a quart of Concept PPG DAR 13358 Ford Corporate Blue.
I also bought 1/2 pint of Concept Purple Tinting color because I felt from memory of seeing original engines, the 13358 needed a little purple.
I added about 3 small capfuls of the purple.
(http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/bryancobb/DSCN2696.jpg)
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: C5ZZKGT on March 22, 2012, 07:29:34 AM
Is there any truth to the fact the frames were originally done with/by Electrocoating?  Bryan, your frame looks GREAT, btw.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: tomtri66 on March 22, 2012, 09:02:36 AM
I will be GLAD to, but be aware I AM NO EXPERT and my car has never been judged.

Thanks for posting.  Don't sell yourself short, looks great.  :)  But yes I understand that engine color can be tricky.  I am not ready to shoot yet but collecting information for when I do.  Want to know as much as I can on the subject before I'm ready to dive in.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on March 23, 2012, 09:31:55 AM
Thanks for the kind words fellas.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on March 23, 2012, 11:00:17 AM
Is there any truth to the fact the frames were originally done with/by Electrocoating?  Bryan, your frame looks GREAT, btw.

When one observes the black coating in areas that would be hard to reach with a conventional paint gun, it makes one wonder if they were e-coated.  I don't know for absolute sure that it was done this way, but I would not rule out at least some of the parts on the top frame being done this way.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: midlife on March 23, 2012, 09:51:38 PM
I don't think electrocoating (e-coat) was available in the mid-60's. 
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on March 24, 2012, 12:35:16 AM
I don't think electrocoating (e-coat) was available in the mid-60's.

It was developed before the 60's

http://www.clearclad.com/clearclad_resources/ecoat.htm
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: C5ZZKGT on March 24, 2012, 06:35:41 AM
Charles & All: My restorer had a guy working for him that was doing the electroplating for the top frames for him......these folks are the ones who told me they were electrocoated originally-I think that Bryan has absolutely duplicated the same finish that electroplating provides, I don't think that "most" people have any clue as to what electroplating is.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on March 24, 2012, 12:54:35 PM
I suppose it is possible that individual parts of the frame may have come painted before assembly, but as mentioned, there is black in areas of the frame that would be darn near impossible to reach with a spray gun.  Again, I am not saying they were e-coated, but there is evidence to support the claim.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: aaatp on March 24, 2012, 04:12:28 PM
Not sure e-coating would stick to all the plastic bushings that are in the frame. All my bushings had black on them and it was not consistent in
it's application, there were some bare spots, as if the paint from a paint gun did not reach there. That would not happen with e-coating.

John
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: Oz390 on April 10, 2012, 04:07:58 AM
On the e-coating vs spray, any chance some of these parts were dipped?  I have seen some thick spots and minor runs, but am not sure if they were original parts or not.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: CharlesTurner on April 10, 2012, 09:14:30 AM
On the e-coating vs spray, any chance some of these parts were dipped?  I have seen some thick spots and minor runs, but am not sure if they were original parts or not.

I'd say yes, there would be a chance some components were dipped.  Typically, these were parts that had a base zinc plating though.  If you ever saw a bit of a silvery surface when stripping the black, then they might have been dipped.  Ford used zinc plating as a primer surface on quite a few parts.
Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: bryancobb on April 10, 2012, 10:04:56 AM
This is PURE SPECULATION.  The frame assemblies had many black parts and they would have been very hard to move around without scratching or chipping, unless the unassembled parts went unpainted until the ASSEMBLED frame was coated all at once.

Chip or scratch repair would have been very time consuming and costly so I'm sure Ford's production method tried to avoid that at all cost.

I watched the Doraville GM plant workers paint similarly intricate assemblies in the 80's as the parts passed by them on a twirling conveyor.  The traditional paint sprayed quickly by hand, from a normal atomizing gun appeared to quickly deposit paint everywhere it needed to get.

My guess for a conclusion is...Fast drying lacquer, hand applied, on a completely assembled top frame, hanging from a twirling conveyor.

Title: Re: Convt Frame Paint (engine bay paint?)
Post by: Oz390 on April 30, 2012, 04:27:18 PM
If completely assembled, how no paint on the header pins, J hooks and chrome bits they screw into that are pressed into the latch base?   

I'd bet sub assemblies were used, and assembed and adjusted post paint for those sub units.  Possibly some touch-up after that, and then the fabric applied before shipping the entire thing to the line for installation. 

Seen many apparently unpainted screws for the side links to frame, and the chrome as noted would not be painted (or masked, as that would be even more time consuming as its a fiddly area).

I'd also guess header was off (otherwise adjusting could leave an exposed line of unpainted metal), side rails assembled, but side links and bows done off (again adjustments would possibly show bare spots on eccentric and bow #2 which I don't think Ford would have done).

And yes, it is all speculation...