ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: DTruitt on September 03, 2013, 05:55:39 PM
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I am touching up a few details on my March 68 SJ, GT fastback. When the car was painted the turn signal hood inserts were painted off the car. In more recent times I have seen/read/heard that the hood inserts may have been painted with the hood and therefore at least a couple of the studs and retaining nuts would have paint on them (I guess similar to the rear valance). Has any documentation surfaced to verify or discount that observation? If so how many studs/ nuts were painted and what was the location?
I tried to research here but did not find any previous posts specific to this detail.
Thanks,
Danny
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It is my understanding that the inserts were painted off the car, separate from the hood. The insert "assembly" was comprised of the main piece, the floating grille (with flat retainers), rubber "O" rings, and all studs.
When the insert assembly was installed on the hood, the nuts (with a red rubber material to prevent water from dropping through I presume) removed much of the paint from the studs when threaded on. The end of the studs should show some paint, and some might remain in the thread as well.
Also there is a TSB article (see pic below) that implies that the "O" rings were not included in the early models (based on the date of the TSB)
If yours does not have painted studs, I would probably try removing a nut, applying paint with a detail brush, then reinstalling the nut after it dries. I don't think anyone intended it to look pretty.
These are of course my observations. Most of the cars on Orlando last weekend were not correct. This is something I look for in junk yards and with unrestored cars.
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Here are a couple of unrestored pics. Hard to see, but if you zoom in you can see body color on the end of a stud or two.
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Also believe (like most of the little parts) they were painted off the hood - never seen a shadow below, on the hood surface when I removed them. They were well coated both front and back since (once the hood was opened) they would be visible from that side
Never seen a painted nut (like the quarter extensions) except on cars that have been touched up or repainted
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Thanks for the replies!
Danny
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I'm working on a December '67 Metuchen convertible and the inserts were placed in position, possibly raised up a bit and painted with the hood. There was gray primer showing underneath where they attach.
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Have never seen that, but have only worked on Dearborn and SJs. Can you post a picture or two for reference?
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It's already been stripped, sorry.
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... removed much of the paint from the studs when threaded on. The end of the studs should show some paint, and some might remain in the thread as well.
Has anyone else observed that the mounting studs were installed before being painted?
Danny
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I'm working on a December '67 Metuchen convertible and the inserts were placed in position, possibly raised up a bit and painted with the hood. There was gray primer showing underneath where they attach.
Charles,
Did you make ay notation if the mounting studs and nuts were also painted? I know you said everything has been striped now!
Danny
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Charles,
Did you make ay notation if the mounting studs and nuts were also painted? I know you said everything has been striped now!
Always find the studs painted on at least the San Jose cars - they were installed before painting.
Looked at my collection - 67-68 San Jose only since the 67 practices might be the same as 68 considering same plant and examples are difficult -
All clear examples had all studs painted body color and all (except one nut on one side - one car but that the zinc plating held up better on that nut ;) were unpainted
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/7R03C188372hoodturns_zpse70fcaa3.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/7R03C188372hoodturns_zpse70fcaa3.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/7R01A169375hoodturnsnoshadow_zps1dc33ece.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/7R01A169375hoodturnsnoshadow_zps1dc33ece.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/7R03C188372hoodturns_zps8c551c03.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/7R03C188372hoodturns_zps8c551c03.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/8R01J119181hoodturns_zps1f6cd7c8.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/8R01J119181hoodturns_zps1f6cd7c8.jpg.html)
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How about a ~12K mile unrestored 7T01A260xxx pic:
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Thanks for the clarification and the pictures; big help.
Danny
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I will add to the discussion some observations. The images are of examples of unknown build dates or build locations.
The only example with paint has shadows of being installed when the under side of hood was painted, giving credence to Charles' example.
Noteworthy, the "painted" example has RH or LH designation while all the others do not and the "painted " one looks to be a more solid center support strip for the grille insert.
I do know the (lack of better description) "hourglass" design was found on a known 68 hood as well as on about an March 67 built 1967 example so they was at least a "supplier" variations if not a running change on the casting details.
I am working on my hood today, so new questions arrise...
Also, notice stud lengths vary. The studs that do not hold the lamps are shorter by about 3/16"
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Noteworthy, the "painted" example has RH or LH designation and looks to be a more solid center support strip for the grille insert.
The insert pictured appears to have been strengthened with a glob of solder or JB weld on the upper side of the support strips - originals do not have this. I wouldn't presume they have original paint.
Kurt.
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My observations, if recalled correctly, are that the hourglass shape was on early models. Prone to breaking (refer to TSB), the design was modified, primarily with an o-ring to limit the grill piece from rattling around. I presumed (risky) that the hourglass shaped mounting lands were modified to strengthen them. There is certainly conjecture there.
Some discussion that briefly mentions this is here. But more important are the pictures where this area can be seen.
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5026.60
Perhaps we should focus specifically on that detail, looking at pictures of known originals and build dates.
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The insert pictured appears to have been strengthened with a glob of solder or JB weld on the upper side of the support strips - originals do not have this. I wouldn't presume they have original paint.
Kurt.
No signs of repaint on these at all. I would assess this as original paint.
My observations, if recalled correctly, are that the hourglass shape was on early models. Prone to breaking (refer to TSB), the design was modified, primarily with an o-ring to limit the grill piece from rattling around. I presumed (risky) that the hourglass shaped mounting lands were modified to strengthen them. There is certainly conjecture there...
Perhaps we should focus specifically on that detail, looking at pictures of known originals and build dates.
My statement holds true that an hourglass type was found on a 68 hood. Perhaps early production 68 ahead of the updated ones. The lime gold (painted) I posted earlier, I have no vehicle history. It was an Ebay purchase that I bought because all I had on hand were broken so they could be later 68's for all I know about them. Since they also were broken, they were of no use on my project (seller refunded the transaction).
I had another from an April 67 build that was hourglass (one side) and other items bought or seen from the same parted out car, would suggest a San Jose, April 67 built donor car.
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How about a ~12K mile unrestored 7T01A260xxx pic:
What's with the TAPE over the insert grilles?
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Richard : Just an "educated" (?) guess. I believe, based on the TSB that John originally Posted in a previous Reply (which now appears as only a part of it, so I have re-Posted it here), the original "fix" for the grills rattling was to do as the Factory did, by adding the small O-rings to the Posts. However, in so doing, many studs were broken, and the whole grill had to be replaced, at the Dealers' cost. To avoid this, Article 1217 in TSB was added. In Article 1217, as you can see, the "new fix" was to add a 3M adhesive to the posts. It is my supposition, that a Dealer or Owner, not wanting to use an adhesive which may prove hard to remove "down the road", decided to use tape instead of adhesive to eliminate, or at least reduce, the rattle.
Just a thought.
Bob
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I have nothing to back this up other than logic. The turn signal portion (which received the tape) was a sub assembly that did not include the bulb or wiring. The bulb socket then received the tape to cover the opening preventing any debris from getting into it.
Same thing with the taillight assemblies, the bulb socket was taped over when the assembly was put together.
Danny
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I have nothing to back this up other than logic. The turn signal portion (which received the tape) was a sub assembly that did not include the bulb or wiring. The bulb socket then received the tape to cover the opening preventing any debris from getting into it.
Same thing with the taillight assemblies, the bulb socket was taped over when the assembly was put together.
Danny
Look again, tape is over the grill opening, not the bulb socket opening
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Look again, tape is over the grill opening, not the bulb socket opening
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Don't believe its factory and have not seen this before. Has anyone ever documented this on another? IF not then we need treat is as an oddity and possibly something an owner choose to do for some unknown reason at this point
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I vote for this to be a "why did the PO do this, what were they thinking?" sort of thing.
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Look again, tape is over the grill opening, not the bulb socket opening
I agree the tape in the picture is added after the factory, most likely by a previous owner.
The tape I was referring to in my post is pictured in this eBay ad of a NOS hood turn signal assembly. I have seen this on too many unrestored cars to think otherwise. I have at least 3 examples of NOS taillight assemblies which have the tape over the bulb sockets, as well. I have also seen numerous unrestored cars with the tape or tape glue remnants over the past on both hood insert turn signal assemblies and taillight assemblies..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-FORD-C7ZZ-13A55-B-1967-1968-MUSTANG-HOOD-TURN-SIGNAL-LAMP-ASSEMBLY-L-OR-R/283586527513?epid=1532548720&hash=item4207130119:g:CTMAAOSwsAJdW~KE
Danny
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Not sure it the grill came off a six cylinder car, but my 68 six cylinder has the turn signal hood and when it rains water falls thru the grill and directly on the belt for the alternator and water pump. This makes the belt slip. The alignment between the belt and grills is not ideal. I could see a previous owner covering the openings to prevent a situation like this.
Just a thought.
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Here is a photo of my buddy's 1968 original paint GT 390 San Jose car for reference. You can definitely see a light coati of body color on the studs, It is nice to have an original car for reference during my restoration