ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: Chris on December 30, 2013, 05:19:30 PM
-
I'm replacing my front suspension as it squeeks constantly, even after greasing, and most of the parts have been replaced at some point with reproduction parts with incorrect zerk fittings.
From what I can see, there are no front suspension "kits" carried by any of the usual suppliers that is OEM-based, meaning correct forging w/o zerk fittings/holes. Does anyone know if there is a correct kit available and I'm just missing finding it? I've checked NPD and VCM, looks like you have to piece a kit together.
The parts I'm looking to order to get a non-squeeking front end are:
- Rivet-based Upper and lower control arms (with ball joints already installed)
- Inner and outer tie rods
- Sway bar insulators
- Sway bar end link kit
- Idler arm with bushing
- Front shocks
From the NPD catalog, correct upper and lower control arms are available as well as inner and outer tie rods. The Idler arm looks to have a hole for a zerk fitting though. What parts had zerk fittings? I think it was just the upper control arms.
Thanks.
-
I'm not aware of anyone who has kits but you may want to check with K.A.R www.karmustang.com, they have put together some other kits, maybe they can help you with this one.
Ray
-
I'm not aware of anyone who has kits but you may want to check with K.A.R www.karmustang.com, they have put together some other kits, maybe they can help you with this one.
Looked through what they were offering and didn't see any concours appropriate suspension kits or individual pieces other than some of the AMK bolts and rubber pieces
Most of it was the typical reproduction stuff - dichromate sway bar brackets, wrong rivets, shocks shaped differently and painted blue, zert fittings on everything, tie rods and ends not shaped correct ....
-
Chris,
IMO this is one of the more challenging areas of concours restoration. Apparently Ford wanted to advertise a low maintenance vehicle, and determined that sealed joints that did not require periodic greasing was something they could use in advertising as a benefit. As to your specific question regarding what parts, if any, had zerk fittings, I'll say "none" and let others chime in and provide any corrections. This includes drive shaft universal joints as well.
However, the Ford service parts, at least everything I've seen from 1975 on, had zerk fittings. That is why you will see in many posts here statements that the Ford NOS parts are not "correct". When you expand to non-Ford parts (Moog and others), zerk fittings were the norm.
For the ball joints, I have seen some original looking ones that appear to have a very small hex head plug that could be removed to add grease, but I'm not certain that these were indeed assembly line correct.
As Jeff mentioned reproduction upper and lower control arms usually have issues with rivet style. Jacking tabs and dust boots are generally problematic also.
The conclusion of many is that the only way to go here is to find good originals and restore them. Decent looking replacement boots are available. There are some services offered by some, but it is not cheap.
Of course some will say that it is foolish to drive a vehicle with used suspect tie rods, for example. As always the choice is yours.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
-
Chris,
IMO this is one of the more challenging areas of concours restoration. Apparently Ford wanted to advertise a low maintenance vehicle, and determined that sealed joints that did not require periodic greasing was something they could use in advertising as a benefit. As to your specific question regarding what parts, if any, had zerk fittings, I'll say "none" and let others chime in and provide any corrections. This includes drive shaft universal joints as well.
However, the Ford service parts, at least everything I've seen from 1975 on, had zerk fittings. That is why you will see in many posts here statements that the Ford NOS parts are not "correct". When you expand to non-Ford parts (Moog and others), zerk fittings were the norm.
For the ball joints, I have seen some original looking ones that appear to have a very small hex head plug that could be removed to add grease, but I'm not certain that these were indeed assembly line correct.
As Jeff mentioned reproduction upper and lower control arms usually have issues with rivet style. Jacking tabs and dust boots are generally problematic also.
The conclusion of many is that the only way to go here is to find good originals and restore them. Decent looking replacement boots are available. There are some services offered by some, but it is not cheap.
Of course some will say that it is foolish to drive a vehicle with used suspect tie rods, for example. As always the choice is yours.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
Besides the fact that the tie rods are typically hardy which is one of the reasons so many survive ,it is easy to tell if worn when off of the car . Used tie rod should be good and tight with no slop what so ever when moving shaft.
-
Here are the parts I was looking at buying, I think they are the best option outside of going NOS:
- Lower Control Arm: Scott Drake, Mustang LOWER CONTROL ARM, REPLACEMENT, OE STYLE RIVETED BALL JOINT, JACK PLATES INSTALLED, LOW FRICTION BALL JOINT
http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_lower_control_arm_replacement_oe_style-148515-2804.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_lower_control_arm_replacement_oe_style-148515-2804.html)
- Upper Control Arm: Scott Drake, Painted black and natural steel gray, ready to install. Riveted ball joint as original.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-upper-control-arm-assembly-premium-black-gray-1965-1966/p/UCA3/ (http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-upper-control-arm-assembly-premium-black-gray-1965-1966/p/UCA3/)
- Tie Rod, outer LH: Mustang TIE ROD, OUTER, LH, CONCOURS CORRECT FORGINGS, BOOTS AND NO ZERK COVER PLATE
http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_lh-169696-370.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_lh-169696-370.html)
- Tie rod, outer RH: Mustang TIE ROD, OUTER, CONCOURS CORRECT FORGINGS, BOOTS AND NO ZERK COVER PLATE
http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_concours_correct_forgings-169697-370.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_concours_correct_forgings-169697-370.html)
- Tie rod, inner LH: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_lh-169698-370.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_lh-169698-370.html)
- Tie rod inner RH: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_concours_correct_forgings-169699-370.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_concours_correct_forgings-169699-370.html)
- Idler arm: Can't find a reproduction without a zerk fitting hole, http://www.cjponyparts.com/idler-arm-v8-1964-1966/p/H18666/ (http://www.cjponyparts.com/idler-arm-v8-1964-1966/p/H18666/)
- Front shock: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_shock_absorber_front_made_by_gabriel-144730-355.html (http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_shock_absorber_front_made_by_gabriel-144730-355.html)
-
Found this idler arm at the Scott Drake site, looks like there is no zerk fitting: http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141 (http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141)
It's funny how some Scott Drake parts are carried by suppliers and others are not. There are the lower control arms at NPD but if you want the upper control arms by Scott drake, you have to go to another supplier like CJ Pony. The idler arm isn't carried by either. The tie rods at NPD must be Moog as the V8 versions on the Scott Drake site all have zerk fittings.
One more thing, should I rebuild the steering box while I'm at it? My power steerring or something makes a very loud screeching sound when it's turned hard and all the way to the right. Not sure what is causing that as my fluid level is fine and the belt is tight, was not sure if the steering box could cause that noise.
-
Found this idler arm at the Scott Drake site, looks like there is no zerk fitting: http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141 (http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141)
It's funny how some Scott Drake parts are carried by suppliers and others are not. There are the lower control arms at NPD but if you want the upper control arms by Scott drake, you have to go to another supplier like CJ Pony. The idler arm isn't carried by either. The tie rods at NPD must be Moog as the V8 versions on the Scott Drake site all have zerk fittings.
One more thing, should I rebuild the steering box while I'm at it? My power steerring or something makes a very loud screeching sound when it's turned hard and all the way to the right. Not sure what is causing that as my fluid level is fine and the belt is tight, was not sure if the steering box could cause that noise.
Yes, rebuild your steering box FOR SURE. You will not believe the differance in steering it will make. The screeching noise you hear is coming from your powersteering system not the steering box.
-
Yes, rebuild your steering box FOR SURE. You will not believe the differance in steering it will make. The screeching noise you hear is coming from your powersteering system not the steering box.
+1 regarding rebuilding your steering box. You can rebuild the entire suspension and it can still not feel tight if you don't also rebuild the steering box.
-
Is rebuilding the Steering Box a DIY project and if so, are any special tools needed?
Thanks
Ray
-
well yes & no, depending on your skill levels. i usually send mine to roger rode in galion ohio. excellent work & quick turnaround.
-
They can be rebuilt DIY, but if there is excessive wear on the shaft, you may need to get a pro to take a look at it. The only difficult part otherwise is using an inch-lb torque wrench to set clearance.
-
I was hoping to get a read on the reproduction parts I listed from NPD and CJ Pony. The NPD parts say concours correct. I take this to mean in line with MCA rules? How close to original are these parts?
Thanks.
-
.........................The NPD parts say concours correct. I take this to mean in line with MCA rules? .........
It means nothing IMHO other than its one persons opinion that its like original. Does not mean that it would not receive any deductions if used on a restored show car. Sure plenty of members here can offer a "concours corrrect" reproduction that lacks in one or more ways original style details.
-
Thanks Jeff. I've used nothing but Service replacement or NOS on the car so far, so I guess my hunt will continue for the suspension and steering parts. Tracking one inner and outer 65 tie rod for V8 now on eBay...only originals I've found so far.
Chris
-
I got a pair of lower arms from NPD and was moderately pleased with them. They were labeled Scott Drake, and that name was engraved on the top between the sway bar end mounting and the ball joint. Some sanding, spot putty and paint resolved that. There are zerk fittings but plugs took care of that. The pivot bushing is mounted properly and there are jacking tabs.
Jim
-
Here are original used parts I found on ebay (below). Can anyone see any problems with using thses for V8 and power steering application after they have been cleaned and painted? One set of lower control arms are restored and one is not (cheaper, but I can't tell the condition of the jacking tabs). Same for the tie rods, one set restored and one not. I'd like to buy the unrestored parts and save some money if possible.
Lower control arms unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/360816114089?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/360816114089?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Lower control arms restored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/151112072396?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/151112072396?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Upper control arms unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/380811748262?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/380811748262?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Tie rods (PS and V8) restored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/291039980782?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/291039980782?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Tie rods (PS and V8) unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181292205948?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/181292205948?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
-
Lower control arms unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/360816114089?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/360816114089?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Lower control arms restored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/151112072396?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/151112072396?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Upper control arms unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/380811748262?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/380811748262?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Tie rods (PS and V8) restored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/291039980782?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/291039980782?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Tie rods (PS and V8) unrestored:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/181292205948?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/181292205948?nav=WATCHING&sbk=1)
Most of the items may be "restored", if you can find NOS or correct - bushings (lower arms, spring perches), ball joints (upper and lower arms) and seals (ball joints, tie rod ends).
There is no claim I could see stating the 2nd item (lower control arms) that they were restored.
The "restored" tie rod ends use an aftermarket type sleeve and clamps, the correct types are visible in the unrestored ends, it's the ridge along the clamp which matches a raised bump on the sleeve. The hardware is not shown but the bolts for the LH power steering tie rods use a special square shoulder bolt (376179-S2) and the clamp has a 3/8 inch square hole for the bolts. The nuts may be the wrong type as well.
Jim