ConcoursMustang Forums
Restoring - General discussions that span across many different groups of years and models => Drivetrain => Topic started by: st9mach1 on February 27, 2010, 02:23:04 PM
-
this is not really a reply to enamel or base clear. But, I'm looking for a spray can engine enamel ford corparate blue for my 1969 Mustang 351W. I heard pros and cons on both plasticote 224 or Dupli-color 1606. sunlitgold68 or caspian65, I think one of you guys could give me a good close answer to what would be best to use since you guys been around this a long time. Thanks for any information you might can give me.
-
If you must use rattle can (will not hold up as long and will flatten quicker) I prefer Plasticote 224 over the Dupli-color for a small block. Have shot a card with all the different available paints (think I've got 8 examples on the card) and the Plastikote is the closest IMHO to original parts (protected unexposed areas)
-
I actually chose Duplicolor 1606 because it looked more original to me. You will get many opinions on this subject, Plastikote looked more purplish to me. I can email you some photos of how my engine turned out with Duplicolor, if you want send me your email address.
-
How do I send you my email address? I'm new on here. I'd rather not post it for others to see. Thanks
-
How do I send you my email address? I'm new on here. I'd rather not post it for others to see. Thanks
Click on Sunltgold to the left of the post. On the next page under ACTIONS choose personal message and then type away
-
thanks,,,
-
If you have a good sample of your original engine color such as a snorkel or air cleaner top that still has a good finish on it, you can take that to a auto paint jobber with a spectrometer to get a color reading off a original part. I would then have them mix a pint of single stage urethane paint, you will have to add some flattening agent to get the right look but the results are much nicer and more durable in the end vs. a rattle can job. Spray can paint is OK for some interior applications but will not hold up to high heat or sunlight as well as a two part enamel or urethane paint.
-
If your doing the spray gun (for others viewing the thread) and if you can still find it in your area the origin color is
Ditzler DAR 13358 acrylic enamel
Mix it with some DXR 80 Delthane Ultra Urethane Hardener and somewhere between 15-20% Ditzler DX 265 All Purpose Flatting Base,Less than 20% flattener
8 parts color + 6 parts reducer (DTR 601 or 602) depending on weather etc + 1 part DXR 80-then DX 265 flatter
-
Here is a before and after of my valve covers on my 68 SJ built (Jan 68) J code coupe. On the left is original and on the right is Duplicolor 1606.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S0SQsiWhJ3I/AAAAAAAAAvo/K--wa8ztm6Y/s400/IMG_3053.JPG)
The more I look at it the more it looks too dark. I have also painted the air cleaner and I think that is what made me think it was too dark.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S4izXSuQs6I/AAAAAAAAA5I/AlTjHZvp_ZI/s400/IMG_3082.JPG)
I wanted to try the Plastikote 224 for comparison but the closest store that carries it is about 25 miles from here and when I went yesterday someone had just cleaned them out. :'(
-
The only place around me that carries Plastikote is CarQuest. If you have them in your area, you could check for it there.
-
Same here and that is where I went.
He said another shipment should be in this week.
But, in the mean time I have a few more pictures of parts I have taken off this car for comparison.
This one is with the Carb riser. I don't remember painting this one and it only appears to have one coat/color of paint on it.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S4qy9X4UV_I/AAAAAAAAA6A/8Wv69uJszng/s400/IMG_3087.JPG)(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S4qy_RMtY6I/AAAAAAAAA6U/xgd0sgzKHSs/s400/IMG_3092.JPG)
This one is the dipstick tube. After looking at this one it appears to have been painted at some point because of the paint extending past the stop at the bottom.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S4izYbOzFjI/AAAAAAAAA5Y/yIfEoPAV4fo/s400/IMG_3085.JPG)
Opinion one either one?
-
I think you are overanalyzing a simple deal. I don't care how many cans you rattle the variances in batches will always reveal slightly different tints. The most accurate is using a product like PPG 13385. It is much easier to duplicate when it is mixed and remixed. I have seen new from the box pieces that were already factory painted or dipped and their colors were night and day different. Paint your parts from rattle cans with the same batch numbers (usually on the bottoms of the cans) and your results will be acceptable. I always use an epoxy primer on my show engines because it seems to keep the paint freshest for the longest time. BTW The small block valve cover should be painted on the engine. Bill
-
here are two brands I tried here, TEMPO and AMERICAN FAST FINISH SPRAY
TEMPO seems reasonable quality, the American spray went dull on the test panel.
comparison with original paint on the 351 windsor
(http://www.andrewsmach1.com/myphotos/ccmustang/P2286120_1.jpg)
(http://www.andrewsmach1.com/myphotos/ccmustang/P2286123_1.jpg)
(http://www.andrewsmach1.com/myphotos/ccmustang/_DSC3191.jpg)
-
I agree with Bill in that there is no exact Ford Corporate Blue. Using old heat-cycled parts as reference does not necessarily yield the proper finish. The best you can do is find something close and go from there. The DAR13358 is a nice starting point and is a catalyzed paint that will last much longer than spray can enamel. Even on original unrestored cars, we see variances in shade throughout the block assembly and also say like on an air cleaner. The base material and preparation have a lot to do with the final covering. We know that Ford applied just enough paint on the engine to cover (if that).
Not trying to come across as negative, just pointing out that even when new, there were many variances/shades of Corporate Blue and I don't think any single mix is the exact "correct" color.
-
In march of 1994, mustang monthly printed a article on how to detail a 428 cj engine, by perkins restoration. On the first page they listed ditzler dar 13358, dxr80 urethane hardener, and dx 265 flatting base @ 25% to 30%. At the time I couldn't believe that you could use body paint on a motor and then drive a car hundreds of miles to a show and the paint hold up. So, I called Bob and told him that I was in concours driven and drove long distances to shows, and how could this paint hold up? Bob said that the paint with the hardener would hold up to being driven and it didn't matter if I primered the engine or not as long as the metal was properly prepared. In the winter of 94 I pulled my 66 mustang engine and stripped it of the krylon spray can paint that wasn't holding up to well. I primed the engine and painted it just like bob told me to. I now have around 20,000 miles on this engine paint and it still looks as good as it initially did. No peeling, no cracking, or bubbling either. When I restored my 68 in 1999, I used the same system on the engine except I sprayed blue straight to the metal(no primer). This engine now has about 9,000 miles on it and looks great as well. I would highly recommend the ditzler product. It is worth the extra price and effort for the look and long lasting finish. If you prepare properly this will last years like it has me. Bill.
-
In reference to baflstangobx.... is the PPG13385 a spray enamel from a rattle can? Thanks...st9mach1
-
Also, what about these Mustang vendors engine paints? Nobody has mentioned them. I have painted engines in the past with engine enamel from a Mustang vendor and had the paint to turn out exceptional and hold up to the heat of the engine. But, the big drawback there is if you need to do touch-up say a year later,the vendor you bought the spray enamel from don't have it no more, and then your stuck,,,,because then you are trying to match the paint, and it's darn near impossible...But, like I say, I have used Mustang vendor spray engine enamel with pretty good results.....st9mach1
-
In reference to baflstangobx.... is the PPG13385 a spray enamel from a rattle can? Thanks...st9mach1
DAR 13358 is an acrylic enamel and would have to be mixed with proper catalyst and reducer before spraying with a paint gun.
If you go to a paint store, they could probably mix up some and put it in an aerosol can.
-
st9mach,
The PPG is as Charles stated is a professional product and I have no idea why we mentioned it since most of us are just abnormal, paint fume inhaling idiots. It, in my opinion is the most accurate formula available. I get the best results, particularly for driven cars, when I use Epoxy Primer underneath (DP-74). It does not allow the color to fade as bad and is a great adhesion promoter. It is also another professional product and requires mixing with catalyst, reducer, etc. If you choose this route I cannot over emphasize the application of the color. DONOT load it up as many seem to do with rattle cans! This will run like a GPS thief on crack cocaine. Give great attention to flash times and I assure you that your engine will look every bit as good or better than your body!
-
Bill Cabaniss, I'm glad to here the Delstar 13358 worked well for you. It's great stuff for both durability and color match. Like all automotive paint if you are trying to match a 40 year old finish you will likely need to tint it to compensate for 40 years of aging. If you are doing a complete 13358 is the original Ford Corporate Blue mix formula. It's the green tint in the formula that gives it the look.
,
-
st9mach,
The PPG is as Charles stated is a professional product and I have no idea why we mentioned it since most of us are just abnormal, paint fume inhaling idiots. It, in my opinion is the most accurate formula available. I get the best results, particularly for driven cars, when I use Epoxy Primer underneath (DP-74). It does not allow the color to fade as bad and is a great adhesion promoter. It is also another professional product and requires mixing with catalyst, reducer, etc. If you choose this route I cannot over emphasize the application of the color. DONOT load it up as many seem to do with rattle cans! This will run like a GPS thief on crack cocaine. Give great attention to flash times and I assure you that your engine will look every bit as good or better than your body!
Bill, I'm very sorry I forgot to tell you to wear a respirator when spraying Delstar Acrylic enamel.
;D
-
That explains the blue stains on my pillowcase that look like the Holy Grail. Also when I sneeze it looks like another medium wet coat. LMAO
-
Bill, I'm very sorry I forgot to tell you to wear a respirator when spraying Delstar Acrylic enamel.
;D
Bob, Don't give away our trade secrets like that!
Regards,
CPM
-
The Plastikote 224 matched my original valve covers best
Jan 23, 1968 built Coupe w/289, 2V, C4, PS, AC
-
Bill Cabaniss, I'm glad to here the Delstar 13358 worked well for you. It's great stuff for both durability and color match. Like all automotive paint if you are trying to match a 40 year old finish you will likely need to tint it to compensate for 40 years of aging. If you are doing a complete 13358 is the original Ford Corporate Blue mix formula. It's the green tint in the formula that gives it the look.
Bill, I'm very sorry I forgot to tell you to wear a respirator when spraying Delstar Acrylic enamel.
;D
Paint store today says no more Delstar, these numbers only good in OMNI
Any other updates to these formulas?
-
The original one is faded. The darker one is the correct shade as it looked when new. If you wanted to simulate 51 year old faded paint then match the old one.
Here is a before and after of my valve covers on my 68 SJ built (Jan 68) J code coupe. On the left is original and on the right is Duplicolor 1606.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S0SQsiWhJ3I/AAAAAAAAAvo/K--wa8ztm6Y/s400/IMG_3053.JPG)
The more I look at it the more it looks too dark. I have also painted the air cleaner and I think that is what made me think it was too dark.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5XSvLuFVhLA/S4izXSuQs6I/AAAAAAAAA5I/AlTjHZvp_ZI/s400/IMG_3082.JPG)
I wanted to try the Plastikote 224 for comparison but the closest store that carries it is about 25 miles from here and when I went yesterday someone had just cleaned them out. :'(