ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: Murf on February 22, 2014, 07:20:20 PM
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California Special, build date April 03, SJ plant. The FAM shows the little nuts that hold the turn signal assemblies to the hood to be 353911 S-100. When I use the search feature I only come up with a discussion that S-100 probably indicates red dye for 68. ?? Hard to imagine that these little nuts require special tightening that was federally mandated. Help me make sense of this or look at your hood turn signals from under the hood and see what kind of finish Ford used on these little nuts. Also was the turn signal painted body color on the bottom as well as the top - I assume it was but? It appears the studs were also painted too? Thanks!
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First question - where the turn indicator hood inserted painted top and both is the easy one - Yes - nice paint job on both sides normally at San Jose in 68. Here are a number of examples showing the finish and the painted studs with just the paint removed from the threads of each and the sides of the push pin type of retainers for the lights
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails1_zpsa17fec35.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails1_zpsa17fec35.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails2_zps7fd5a2a3.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails2_zps7fd5a2a3.jpg.html)
Now the finish of the nuts is another thing that does not appear that easy to answer - First not sure if the red dye was a Federal reqirement or a Ford thing that they had been doing for a long time and simply increased the number of identified parts by 800% or more in 68. Have a workers filer somewhere that explains to the workers the whys and hows.
Anyway looking at low mileage pretty original 68 San Jose cars it appears that on some a red color still remains in small samples. The issue IMHO it that it does not appear to be the typical red dye but a product that chipped, flaked and or wore off in places and even appears to maybe have been the color sealer used for those nuts. Allot of these nuts had a rubber like insert on the back side to seal the opening the nut was tightening on and for some applications (can't remember the specific ones) I recall finding these over the years when disassembling Mustangs. If you look closest you can see ribbons that seem to be sandwiched between the hood and nut or where the material appears to have been squeezed out from between the two during installation.
Also on the couple of examples where the first nut - bottom left of the picture - each has the red material around the nut part of the hardware
In any case something to discuss further Thinking through the nuts and bolts I have buckets of I wonder if I've got any of the red sealer nuts still around or if they have all been sent out for replating. Will try and look
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails4_zpsb58778aa.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails4_zpsb58778aa.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails3_zps3f9dba38.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/Body/68SJhoodtrundetails3_zps3f9dba38.jpg.html)
This happens to be a 67 San Jose example that shows the same hardware. Figured same plant - different year might still be using the same supplier and it appears they did. If you look closely in this picture you can see that the red material has wrinkled and released in allot of areas from the nut - just waitign for someone to wipe it off IMHO or just for a gust of wind to come along. Not the red dye (S-100) at all it appears
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/68%20Mustang/Body/67SJhoodtrundetails4_zps80f0682a.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/68%20Mustang/Body/67SJhoodtrundetails4_zps80f0682a.jpg.html)
Hope these help ;)
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I have all of the original nuts and they do have a rubber insert to seal the surface, but in this case everyone of them has what appears to be a black rubber insert. For all I know they could have been red when installed and the heat, time and conditions may have turned the rubber black. Let us see what others have to say ---
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From observations and experience of others we can only make an educated guess that the retaining nuts were cad (or zinc?) plated and had either a red or black rubber insert in the hollow part of the nut. The nuts were not the "push on cut your own threads" that we see on heater box studs that extend through the firewall but rather have nice ordinary threads. A guess is that the S-100 notation indicates that the "SPECIAL FINISH" was the rubber sealing surface that these nuts contain. If in the future anyone discovers otherwise I trust they will add to this post.
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John, I have basically the same observations at you. I've bought and sold many of these assemblies over the years. While I've had some with black rubber inserts, I would say that the vast majority that I ran across were red. Given my location most of these would be from Dearborn. I'll have to check when I get to the garage, but think that when I look under the rubber insert the finish of the nuts is gold.
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The nut in question, 353911-S100, is used on 64 thru 68 Mustangs, convertibles, rear valence and rocker moldings. For 67 and 68 only, 14 are used on the hood mounted turn signal fixtures. It's the same part number and finish so what ever was used in 64 would still be used in 68, Ford would not grant variances in finish color without documentation, which may be part of the TSB instructions used for the vibration complaints. The early cars finish was clear zinc so that should be the finish in 67-68. The seals should be red, although without the original document, it may have been black as a supplier option. (For reference, the nut is identical to 359606-S8 except for the sealer, and 69-70 -S36.)
Jim
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John, I have basically the same observations at you. I've bought and sold many of these assemblies over the years. While I've had some with black rubber inserts, I would say that the vast majority that I ran across were red. Given my location most of these would be from Dearborn. I'll have to check when I get to the garage, but think that when I look under the rubber insert the finish of the nuts is gold.
I have not seen gold on the nuts but have found SJ cars that the turn signal housings were zinc dichromate under the nuts. I have not seen that on the other two plants.
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My 67 New Jersey car had red rubber. Over the years (from being removed and replaced) most of the red rubber is gone, but still red.
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I have not seen gold on the nuts but have found SJ cars that the turn signal housings were zinc dichromate under the nuts. I have not seen that on the other two plants.
You're right Marty. Finally got through the snow and ice to check. Pic below.
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In addition to the hood-mounted turn signal lamp mounting nuts, I just found the red rubber under the stamped nuts used on my 67 front valance-mounted parking lights. The nut is 45243 per the MPC, likely a replacement service part, because the assembly drawing lists 376750. The 45243 is found in the 1969 version of the Ford fastener catalog, but the 376750 is not. Attached is a picture of what I found thus far, which includes excerpts from "Jim's spreadsheet" found in the library. Also included is a close up picture of these puppies. I can think of a few ways to try to make a batch of these, but wanted to ask first if anyone has done it already.
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.. likely a replacement service part, because the assembly drawing lists 376750.
What assembly drawing are you referring to? The "1967 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual" (AM0018) page 60, shows "Existing Nut".
Jim
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................. I can think of a few ways to try to make a batch of these, but wanted to ask first if anyone has done it already.
I think I would try one of the high heat silicon in a tube. That is what I've used to make them in the past. Some commercial brands in the big chalking gun type of tubes is what I've used. Of course that is way more material than needed for these little things but the color was much closer than the small ones made for car applications. We were using it to seal shipping containers when we built structures we could use for fire department training and blowing 6 foot balls of fire out of ::)
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The nut is 45243 per the MPC, likely a replacement service part, . .
True. Same screw thread, but no sealer, and is 0.750in OD.
. . because the assembly drawing lists 376750. The 45243 is found in the 1969 version of the Ford fastener catalog, but the 376750 is not.
The trim piece (identified as "Ornament Assy", item 9) is held on by 5 each (10 total) 353911-S100 (0.625 in OD) referenced on the "1967 Mustang Body Assembly Manual" (AM0016) page 13. There are 2 each (4 total) used for the turn signals, which are shown on the "1967 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual" (AM0018) page 60, as "Existing Nut".
The question now is where did you find Ford Hardware part number 376750-S (-S35, -S36 or -S7 are used)?
(Note: Finishes "-S100" and up are detailed on the hardware drawing.)
(Note: Ford Hardware part number 376750-S (as -S2 or -S36M) is reference in the latest AMK Bulk Fasteners Catalog.)
Jim
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The question now is where did you find Ford Hardware part number 376750-S (-S35, -S36 or -S7 are used)?
Jim
Sorry for the delay. Here is the pertinent part of my post: "The nut is 45243 per the MPC, likely a replacement service part, because the assembly drawing lists 376750." Proceeding this was a shifting of the gears from the subject "hood turn signal" to the front valance parking light. I was concerned about that, but the side discussion was the red rubber insert, which they have in common. It might be good to split these into two discussions.
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I was concerned about that, but the side discussion was the red rubber insert, which they have in common.
I'm looking for my attempt at the "red rubber insert". This type is used on 65-66 Mustangs but I can't find my "task box" (especially in the dark). I'll look again tomorrow.
Jim
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I finally found my "red rubber inset" material. I was hoping for a vendor part number on it, but nothing. All I remember is I bought it at a hobby supply store. It's has a stick back side. I used it on the 65-66 gas cap cable (a loop design) nut, 380331-S8, 12-24hex lock nut (AMK Guide To Ford Fasteners, pg 195). The holes on the red sheet show I used a 9/16 punch.
Jim