ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: Angela on February 26, 2014, 09:15:18 PM

Title: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on February 26, 2014, 09:15:18 PM
If anyone has a pic or other info concerning speedometer cable routing for the 390 C6 application, could you post it here? I've found lots of pics of 289 & 390 3 & 4-speed applications using simple google image searches, yet nothing on the C6 390 application. The Osborne body assembly manual specifies the 390 auto routing is different. I cannot figure out where the cable is clipped to the frame rail or floor pan, and even more embarrassing I'm not certain which hole in the firewall the speedo cable is supposed to pass through... is it the hole directly beneath that which the headlamp wire harness passes through?

Finally, there's a metal cable clamp attached to one of the mounting studs for the driver's side cowl vent. Are *both* the speedometer cable and heater control cables supposed to pass through that cable clamp, or just the speedo cable?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: J_Speegle on February 26, 2014, 11:29:31 PM
Angela what year are we working on again ?

Sorry can't recall if its a 68 or a 67 :(
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on February 27, 2014, 09:02:31 AM
There is a long U shaped clip that attaches to the stud in front of air vent. Neither heater cable nor speedo cable go in it. You said cables for heat so I assume you have a non ac car. Its a little hard to describe, the cable runs through the opening of the wiper motor support and up over the top of the speedo cable. On an AC car the vacuum lines are taped to heater cable and routed the same way.
Speedo cable, cant recall whether its above or below wiring but I think it will only fit one way (I'm pretty sure its above) There is a clip the frame rail that both the speedo cable and e brake cable run through and from there it goes into trans. There is another spring clip on the frame work that the transmission crossmember bolts to that it snaps in.
One thing I cant remember is whether or not the C 6 cable uses the spring clip on the fender apron by the proportioning valve or whether thats just for 4 spd cars?
Sorry I've only got 4 spd cars here at the moment. I would think the assembly manual would indicate whether there is one in that area for C 6
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on February 27, 2014, 05:28:05 PM
Whoa, um, what, say that again? Neither the heater control cables nor the speedometer cable routes through the cable clamp at the cowl vent? The assembly diagrams show both of these two cables routed through that clamp.... I just wasn't sure that was accurate. It seems like that clamp is affixed to the cowl vent for a reason, it must be there to hold something, right? Won't the heater control and/or speedo cables get caught in the wiper arm mechanism if not routed through this clip?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on February 27, 2014, 05:30:08 PM
Jeff, it's a 67, 390 C6 SanJose.
I am now thoroughly confused as to how the speedometer cable and heater control cables are supposed to be routed.

Yes, it's a non-AC car. It does have smog / thermactor though.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on February 28, 2014, 09:48:26 AM
I think the following image is of a C4 application, but perhaps someone may be able to comment as to whether or not the C6 routing is the same or similar?

A friend of mine found this picture for me, thus I have no information about it. The arrows indicate the speedo cable and the single large arrow indicates the clip attached to the cable. My original C6 cable has a clip still wrapped around it in approx the same location as shown here.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on February 28, 2014, 12:00:11 PM
Also, someone indicated that neither the speedo or heater control cables are supposed to route through the clamp at the cowl vent. This confuses me and I'm looking for some additional feedback. Attached below is are two images from the electrical assembly manual, both of which show these cables passing through the previously mentioned clamp. Did the factory not actually route these cables as shown?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: J_Speegle on February 28, 2014, 06:36:25 PM
First thanks for the confirmation as to plant and year. Keeps me from looking at allot of extra pictures that might not relate;)


 
...........Did the factory not actually route these cables as shown?

Believe those are two different clamps in the drawings in slightly different locations. I've never found the one shown in the picture with the speedo cable. What is the date on that page ?

As for routing don't thing I'm going to find any for under the dash and only recall the speedo cables going from the back of the gauge to the hole in the dash  (no clamp)

I think the following image is of a C4 application, but perhaps someone may be able to comment as to whether or not the C6 routing is the same or similar?

Its similar in places (under dash would be the same IMHO. Gauge pod and location are the same as well as they share the same exit into the engine compartment unlike some other years and models

Once the cable exits it shares a retaining clip attached to the drivers side frame with the E brake cable

(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67BBautoseedorouting_zps1f718fc1.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67BBautoseedorouting_zps1f718fc1.jpg.html)




After that it travels down the side of the trans on the drivers side to the transmission cross member where it attaches to a retaining clip then enters the trans at the tail shaft


(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/67%20Mustang/67BBautospeedorouting_zps27dc8bf4.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/67%20Mustang/67BBautospeedorouting_zps27dc8bf4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on February 28, 2014, 10:21:28 PM
Also, someone indicated that neither the speedo or heater control cables are supposed to route through the clamp at the cowl vent. This confuses me and I'm looking for some additional feedback. Attached below is are two images from the electrical assembly manual, both of which show these cables passing through the previously mentioned clamp. Did the factory not actually route these cables as shown?

It has been my experience that most automatic cars did not use the guide for the speedometer cable. I think it was used on manuals to keep the cable away from the clutch return spring.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on March 01, 2014, 09:08:16 AM
Speedo cable outside passenger compartment is exact as Jeff picture shows. There is also a clip near distibution block but may be 4 spd only, cant remember. As far as cables hitting wiper linkage, they run substantially below it. Order of cables etc through firewall top to bottom,
wiper hoses
wiring harness
speeo cable
clutch linkage (if equipped)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 01, 2014, 10:55:24 AM
Speedo cable outside passenger compartment is exact as Jeff picture shows. There is also a clip near distibution block but may be 4 spd only, cant remember. As far as cables hitting wiper linkage, they run substantially below it. Order of cables etc through firewall top to bottom,
wiper hoses
wiring harness
speeo cable
clutch linkage (if equipped)
The automatics also use the clip near the distribution block too.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 01, 2014, 08:52:47 PM
Wow! Thanks a ton to Jeff for the pics and to those who added comments! Great help.

If I understand this correctly, there should be one "C" shaped clip with a bolt just outside the firewall, plus one more clip near the trans x-member. I'm in big trouble... I don't have this "C" shaped clip. Bang head here. Anyone have one and willing to sell it to me?  :-[

As far as the clip inside the car, at the cowl vent, it sounds like you guys are telling me the automatics didn't route the cable through that clip. But what about the heater control cables as pictured above? Is that accurate or not? I routed my heater control cables through that clip because I thought that's what the osborne drawing indicated. That said, I'll admit the heater controls would work better if the cables did NOT route through that clip. I just figured they were supposed to be held in that ckip to keep them away from the wiper arm mechanism.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 01, 2014, 09:39:50 PM
There is a J hook that hangs from the cowl for the main wire harness. If the heater cables lay in there fine if not I would not  worry about it. I have never had one tangle with a wiper arm. Now a AC duct that is a different story.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: J_Speegle on March 01, 2014, 11:19:50 PM
Wow! Thanks a ton to Jeff for the pics and to those who added comments! Great help.

If I understand this correctly, there should be one "C" shaped clip with a bolt just outside the firewall, plus one more clip near the trans x-member. I'm in big trouble... I don't have this "C" shaped clip. Bang head here. Anyone have one and willing to sell it to me?  :-[

Don't think its a "C" shaped clamp but rather a loop - more like a four sided rectangle if I recall correctly. Been a while since I had one off - if ever

Bunch of 67-68's in the Resto Mod shop currently will see if there is one there I can get a good clear picture of. Don't have one sitting around my garages in a box :(   It will help confirm the shape 

Marty agreed on the small S brake clip - both /all cars
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 06, 2014, 09:44:54 PM
Can anyone describe the bolt that holds the "loop" or "C" shaped clip show by the yellow arrow in Jeff's picture? The bolt that's holding the clip which holds both parking brake cable and speedo cables...

According to the chassis assembly manual this bolt is 40156-S2, and according to AMK that translates to a 5/16-18 hex head bolt without any integrated washer, 5/8" long, machine thread. However, when I look at the corresponding hole in the frame rail, I don't find any threads, which makes me think the correct bolt should be a cutting thread or tapping screw thread.

Can anyone help ID the correct bolt, machine or tapping thread?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: J_Speegle on March 08, 2014, 01:51:17 AM
Can anyone describe the bolt that holds the "loop" or "C" shaped clip show by the yellow arrow in Jeff's picture? The bolt that's holding the clip which holds both parking brake cable and speedo cables...

Hope this helps - was labeling pictures again tonight and ran across this picture. Sunken head, no intergrated washer


(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/1/6-070314235100-19952151.jpeg)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 08, 2014, 09:57:20 AM
Here is another.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 08, 2014, 05:47:32 PM
Awesome! Thanks for the help with the bolt!

I assume the speedo cable should route underneath the steering shaft; is there supposed to be another clip that holds the cable to the inner fender, just to the right (towards fender) of the brake booster? I ask because there appears to be a need to hold the cable away from the steering shaft before it routes through the firewall
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 08, 2014, 07:40:40 PM
I went ahead and routed the speedo cable underneath the steering shaft but am not sure that's correct.

Is there supposed to be another clip that holds the cable to the inner fender, just to the right (towards fender) of the brake booster? See attached image.

I found an old photo (an actual piece of KODAK color paper :-) ) showing this car when I took it apart and I noticed that the clip we've been discussing here (the one holding both the speedo cable AND the p-brake) wasn't bolted to my frame rail. Instead, the clip that was present in this location was only holding the speedo cable. Not sure which is correct. I don't have a scanner and attempts to take a picture of this picture have rendered in a beautifully blurry worthless image.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: J_Speegle on March 08, 2014, 07:49:03 PM
Here is another.


Noticed it looks different - maybe different plant and year = different supplier  again  ;)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 08, 2014, 08:03:13 PM

Noticed it looks different - maybe different plant and year = different supplier  again  ;)
Jeff is from the 68 GT 350.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 08, 2014, 08:59:46 PM
Am I crazy or should the speedo cable be clamped to the inner fender near the brake booster?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 08, 2014, 11:33:30 PM
Am I crazy or should the speedo cable be clamped to the inner fender near the brake booster?
Yes as pointed out in a earlier post.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on March 09, 2014, 09:46:27 AM
Here is a pic from a 67 small block - sheathed the parking brake cable and speedometer cable under the same clamp.  Don't have any pictures of big block cars from this vantage point.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 09, 2014, 11:20:05 AM
John, excellent pic; thanks! That seems to provide additional evidence that the parking brake cable was under a lot of strain to be clamped in this way. I feel better that I have it routed correctly now. :-)

ruppstang, you stated that "in a earlier post" you indicated the speedo cable was clamped to the inner fender. Sorry, I don't see that comment else I would not have asked. :-) Do you have a picture of this situation, showing the clamp at the inner fender?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 09, 2014, 11:28:49 AM

ruppstang, you stated that "in a earlier post" you indicated the speedo cable was clamped to the inner fender. Sorry, I don't see that comment else I would not have asked. :-) Do you have a picture of this situation, showing the clamp at the inner fender?

See post 9 and 10 of this thread. I will see if I can get you a picture.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 09, 2014, 01:33:24 PM
Ahhhhhhh, I get it now. I didn't understand the comment about the dist. block at the time, but contextually I understand it now. Thanks for setting me straight.

A pic would be fantastic if you have one. I don't know what type of clip I am hunting for.... plastic, metal, with a bolt or without a bolt to hold it.... hence a pic would be terrific. Then I hope I can find one of these to purchase.

would one of these be the correct PN for this clip?
  377098-S
  379816-S
  372185-S
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 09, 2014, 02:19:37 PM
Here you go.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 09, 2014, 04:11:22 PM
Thanks! Looks like a metal clip with an attachment mechanism similar to that of the speedo clip that holds the cable to the x-member; does that sound correct?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 19, 2014, 10:42:50 AM
This clip is proving to be a nightmare to locate.

"Ruppstang" posted a picture showing this clip installed at the apron (inner fender); thanks a ton for the pic.... I have yet to find another similar picture.
Question concerning the clip Ruppstang posted above, is this clip held to the apron with a bolt? Or, is this the type of clip that can onlt be used once (snaps in) and is destroyed if you try to remove it?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: ruppstang on March 19, 2014, 02:23:15 PM
It is held in like a gas or brake line clip.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Angela on March 19, 2014, 04:40:59 PM
Thanks for the info! So, does the clip look something like this style clip from NPD? (pic below)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on March 19, 2014, 06:02:43 PM
is there supposed to be another clip that holds the cable to the inner fender, just to the right (towards fender) of the brake booster? I ask because there appears to be a need to hold the cable away from the steering shaft before it routes through the firewall
yes, we mentioned it in posts #2,9 and 10
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on March 19, 2014, 06:03:59 PM
Thanks for the info! So, does the clip look something like this style clip from NPD? (pic below)
Not really. It looks like that if you removed one side. It is not reproduced by anyone so either NOS, used or make one (thats what I usually do)
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on March 19, 2014, 06:07:10 PM
Jeff is from the 68 GT 350.
Yep, thats the 68 NJ style. Bet it has CYY or something like that on head
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: jwc66k on March 19, 2014, 08:20:39 PM
Thanks for the info! So, does the clip look something like this style clip from NPD? (pic below)
That clip is a 64-66 application only. The retaining type is called a "butterfly clip". You pinch the exposed tangs (wings) and the bottom two spread.
Jim
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: DTruitt on March 19, 2014, 10:54:04 PM
Maybe this post and pictures will help clarify what others have been trying to describe.

 http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5206.msg29204#msg29204

If I am not mistaken the speedometer cable routing is the same for A/T regardless of SB or BB. 4 speeds have a longer cable and different routing. The reason for this is A/T cable is on the left side of the tailshaft and 4 speeds on the right side.

The clip below the proportioning valve is difficult to install, you should be able to clearly see the factory hole for the clip looking through the wheel well. You'll probably need two people if your engine is already installed.

So, the cable exits the transmission and is routed through the clip on the transmission cross member it travels up the frame rail to the bolted clamp, begins its loop to the rear engine apron clip and then through the firewall.

I hope this helps.

Danny
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 10, 2018, 10:20:02 PM
Sorry to resurrect this one but I'm at the same point where I'm looking for the speedometer cable clip as shown in the attached picture.

In the picture at the bottom is the rag joint.  Lower left bolt is for the parking brake.  Brake lines go from left to right.  Speedometer cable running mostly vertical.

The clip is about dead center.  This area is below the power brake booster.

This was a rather long post, and would summarize it this way:

1. The clip nor the butterflypush  pin is not limited to 65-66 nor the NJ assembly plant.  I'm sure that this is how my Dec 66 SJ 289 car left the factory.
2. It is not limited to C6 transmission speedometer cables
3. If still does not appear to be available.  I can see why Tim Lea would make it, it not too complex of a shape.  The butterfly push pin is available separately from NPD if I recall.

Since it has been a few years, does someone have a source, or have a used one available to purchase?  Otherwise I'll make a few to share with others.

Naturally the one in the picture is MIA, I guess I need to head back to the shop and look much more closely.  Time for spring cleaning.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 11, 2018, 08:29:03 AM
I found it, almost tripped over it.  I have detailed dimensions and pictures to upload later

***details in the attached PDF***
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 11, 2018, 09:41:56 AM
I found it, almost tripped over it.  I have detailed dimensions and pictures to upload later

Good to hear. I have mine still clipped onto the body, it went through the media-blasting process when I did that a few years ago.

Does anyone have an opinion of what type of finish this speedo cable clip ought to be? My guess is natural steel like the fuel line/brake line clamps were but the "squeeze clips" from the fuel line/brake lines look to be dull zinc plated so is it safe to say these would likely be the same?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 11, 2018, 10:54:13 AM
Mine had a light rust patina over it, so I would guess bare steel also.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 11, 2018, 11:00:06 AM
While we are at it, I have this other speedometer cable clip shown attached to my cable about 14" from the gear end.  But I don't have a picture of where it attaches.  Can anyone help with that?  The assembly manual drawing is in poor condition and does not really help in this case. Looks like the inner fender clip is 377098-S while this clip may be 379816-S32. Thanks, John
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 11, 2018, 11:52:08 AM
While we are at it, I have this other speedometer cable clip shown attached to my cable about 14" from the gear end.  But I don't have a picture of where it attaches.  Can anyone help with that?  The assembly manual drawing is in poor condition and does not really help in this case. Looks like the inner fender clip is 377098-S while this clip may be 379816-S32. Thanks, John

EASY! on a C4 or 3-speed, that goes into a hole in the unibody crossmember, on the drivers side near where the long bolt for the trans crossmember bolts in, hard to explain but look at the unibody crossmember the trans crossmember bolts to, you'll see the hole.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 11, 2018, 01:33:12 PM
Like here?
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on April 11, 2018, 01:37:29 PM
The unobtainium 377098-S does not show up in any Ford documents I have, other than the previously referenced assembly manual, whereas clip 379816-S32 shows up all over the place in MPCs and fastener manuals.

I've got a friend who is going to make a 3D image of 377098-S and look at having it reproduced.  He has a small business and makes a bunch of clips and other doodads for the Mopar world so has been down this road many times, successfully.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gtasanjose on April 11, 2018, 01:51:21 PM
Like here?

YES! I saw it was further outboard from the crossmember bolt when I went home at lunch than I described, but yes, that's the correct hole!
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 67gta289 on May 25, 2018, 10:05:46 PM
The unobtainium 377098-S does not show up in any Ford documents I have, other than the previously referenced assembly manual, whereas clip 379816-S32 shows up all over the place in MPCs and fastener manuals.

I've got a friend who is going to make a 3D image of 377098-S and look at having it reproduced.  He has a small business and makes a bunch of clips and other doodads for the Mopar world so has been down this road many times, successfully.

The design for the new part is done and he is getting quotes.  In the meanwhile I went junkyard picking with Bob (196667Bob) and picked up three used ones. Will create a for sale post for those that might need one.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: 1967 eight barrel on May 28, 2018, 11:47:34 AM
Angela, the clamp that holds the Ebrake cable to the inside of the frame rail retains the speedometer cable as well.
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: TLea on May 28, 2018, 08:18:39 PM
Mine had a light rust patina over it, so I would guess bare steel also.
Finish is like brown anodized. Similar to anodized bronze
Title: Re: 390 C6 Speedometer & heater cable routing
Post by: Bob Gaines on May 28, 2018, 09:29:22 PM
Finish is like brown anodized. Similar to anodized bronze
It is black chromate I believe. Process is just like the gold only black.