ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1969 Mustang => Topic started by: Anghelrestorations on March 24, 2014, 03:11:54 AM
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Put together a new write up on the differences on the radiator brackets for 69 and 70. Would be interested to hear if anyone has ever seen a lag screw used on cars other than what came out of Dearborn.
http://www.anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/1/7/6/3176630/radiator_brackets_v1.2.pdf (http://www.anghelrestorations.com/uploads/3/1/7/6/3176630/radiator_brackets_v1.2.pdf)
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN4059_zpsf3e83335.jpg)
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How many examples from Dearborn have you found with the holes in the bracket and not in the radiator support?
Might want to show the other end (engine side) of the bracket to show the difference between the earlier and 69 style from that angle. Just a though ;)
Will look through my pictures and see what I can find - but don't recall an example from another plant
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Marcus,
You must have been reading my mind. Thanks for taking the time to document & posting.
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Actually Jeff the holes on the radiator support bracket is on all of them. Its only some cars that had that extra lag screw added.
My working theory right now is its only on Dearborn cars unless you or someone else can document another plant in 69 or 70.
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Thanks Marcus. Another part that can go on the short list of pieces without any ID markings ? Brian
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Nope...there is no actual ID marking on the bracket itself like date codes or engineering numbers.
And just an FYI the insulator pad here you posted looks like its for the lower bracket from the number I can see in the photo.
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Yes, good eye, I have 4 of the C8ZB-A pads on the car. Figured that was the stock setup until this latest article. I'll guess the C7 upper pads would have started life on the 67 Mustang ? Brian
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My car (Dearborn April 21,69) had these holes. I filled them in because I thought that they didn't belong. The holes were just holes through the sheet metal. There was no fastener or anything welded to accept the screw. Is this the case on Boss 9 cars also, just a hole in the metal without a fastener? I guess I will be putting them back. Hopefully I can still find the bolts. Do you know what the size is for these bolts?
We are so fortunate to have the "Concours Mustang" forum, and the people who contribute this wealth of information. Thank you. Carm.
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Hi Marcus, and all,
Regarding the lower radiator brackets, '69 vs '70. Any idea what date these might have been changed over?
My '70 Eliminator (build date Oct 6th of '69, Dearborn) has a passenger side '69 lower radiator bracket. I know that my car has had the major front end bits replaced forward of the shock towers, but I believe the lower radiator bracket may be original given the condition and other peculiarities (damage to the bracket, paint overspray, totally incorrect driver's side bracket).
Any insight on change dates?
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My car (Dearborn April 21,69) had these holes. I filled them in because I thought that they didn't belong. The holes were just holes through the sheet metal. There was no fastener or anything welded to accept the screw. Is this the case on Boss 9 cars also, just a hole in the metal without a fastener? I guess I will be putting them back. Hopefully I can still find the bolts. Do you know what the size is for these bolts?
We are so fortunate to have the "Concours Mustang" forum, and the people who contribute this wealth of information. Thank you. Carm.
]FYI there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason for the screws (other then Boss 9)other then some needed the extra hold down effect. Not all Dearborn Mustangs /Shelby's got them.
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........... Would be interested to hear if anyone has ever seen a lag screw used on cars other than what came out of Dearborn.
Only found one example so far - unrestored but well "played with" 69 NJ example. Might be original to the car considering that if a PO did it they likely would not use those particular screws
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-250314222444.jpeg)
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Jeff...thanks for looking. So I would still say its hard to determine at this point if its exclusive to Dearborn, but the overwhelming feeling seems to be that this was normally seen on Dearborn cars, and like Bob says outside of the Boss9's there is no real pattern to which cars had these, and which did not.
Of course the interesting thing is the holes in the upper bracket were stamped for a reason so you would think they always had these screws. But that didn't happen. And the assembly manual makes no mention of the screws.
As for the change over date its my opinion this was model year specific.
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I was looking at the pics of Dave W's old Boss 429 in the recent Hemmings Muscle Machines.
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2014/04/01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2014/04/01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html#PhotoSwipe1395808662198
Notice that his boss does not have the extra bracket bolts in place. BUT, look closely and you can see a hole in the top of the radiator support right below the bracket hole.
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One more question: what size are the lag bolts? Hex size, length, etc?
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Good eye on that....and yes, they are missing in the pictures of that Boss 429.
The length of the bolts is about 1.75 from what I have seen. They have a 3/8 inch head if I remember correct.
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........The length of the bolts is about 1.75 from what I have seen. They have a 3/8 inch head if I remember correct.
+1
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I have bunch of those (lunch pail) screws thatcame out of the Dearborn plant & they are like arm rest screws but the b9 screws are the bigger D head rear hanger screw & p/s cooler screw that was all done at KK plant probably since that is what they had there. These screws were self tapping when installed & will leave a O mark in your upper bracket if screw was used from factory so if 2 holes are drilled in rad support I look thru my inventory & find a upper bracket with the O marks around the hole opening & use it again on that car with previuos screwholes. I wonder how many times over the years the rad support holes got welded shut as I have seen restored cars with the marks left around upper rad bracket holes & pointed that out to them & got no respose. I don't know if at Dearborn this was a shift thing or line guy not having enough time to install them BUT the 69-70 bracket is longer & sticks out more than 67-68 style & they all had the hole punched in them from the start so I wonder if the engineers designing the 69=70 bracketthought that sticking out farther needed more support than the short 67-68 style.
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Ok, modified the link and the document to add comments about the different diameter lag screws used on the the Boss9's.
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the very early 69 b9s never got the screws so we cant say all b9s got them.
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Only found one example so far - unrestored but well "played with" 69 NJ example. Might be original to the car considering that if a PO did it they likely would not use those particular screws
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-250314222444.jpeg)
Did you guys notice the GT-500 surviver with 8531 orig. miles, belongs to a Mr Brown. It has the screws....
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I found another one. Grabber green GT-500 conv. ( 482546) with 29,000 orig. miles. :)
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So it looks like almost all of them we see are on Dearborn cars.
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Ed are you sure about the early Boss9's? KK1220 that I did an inspection on last year had them in there.....picture of that car here:
(http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/azscj/DSCN5735_zps64aefb46.jpg)
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So it looks like almost all of them we see are on Dearborn cars.
Would agree based on what we've seen and know to this point.. Just wish they had used them on all of the Dearborn cars rather than some here and some there :o
Got to love it :)
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Marcus that is an older resto that severl owners had & you would have to go by photos of car BEFORE resto as someone could have added the screws thinking they all should but I have documented 4 original unrestored car between kk 1250 &1264 that never had the screws & I got photos here from kk 1223 here somewhere.
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Your right Ed, need to go by originals....and if I remember this was the car that was owned by a handicapped guy who changed it to an automatic for a while early in its life....right? Think that was this car.
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yep out of ohio
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Ok, we talked about the top bracket. Now it's time to give the bottom bracket's thier equal air-time :-)
Could I get some pictures of properly installed lower radiator brackets?
I happen to be in the process of reinstalling my radiator and the driver's side bracket was from God-knows-what, and my passenger bracket was bent all to heck. So I would like to see pics so I can be sure that I'm putting my lower brackets in correctly (I picked up a "correct" set of '69 style lowers before I knew there was a '69/'70 difference).
Also, what are the correct bolts for the upper bracket? I bought the kit from AMK (F-389 = Fasteners: RADIATOR - 302/351 XC, 390/428. 69O, 69C, 69Z, 70O, 70C, 70Z, 71O) and it included a set of capture nuts... but those don't seem to jive with the round holes in my '70 style upper bracket. They seem like they would fit the '69 upper bracket square holes though.
So what sort of nuts should I be using with the '70 upper bracket?