ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Mustang => Topic started by: lprice1024 on April 19, 2014, 10:22:07 PM
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Just inherited a 1967 GTA Convertible with the 390 CI engine. Is the correct carburetor a Holley 4 Barrel #C70F9510D?
Is it possible to get a rebuilt one or is it possible to rebuild this one?
Should the last letter in the Model # be a D or either A,B, or C?
Additional Info - DSO - 15, TRANS - U, DATE - 27F, AXLE - 1, TRIM - 2A
Thanks,
LP
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C70F-9510-D comes back as 390 Auto Trans, Mustang, Cougar, Comet, Fairlane w/ California Emissions
http://www.mustangtek.com/4150/C7OF-9510-D.html
Looks like non-California Emissions should be a suffix of "B"
"A" & "C" are for 4-speed applications
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Just inherited a 1967 GTA Convertible with the 390 CI engine. Is the correct carburetor a Holley 4 Barrel #C70F9510D?
Is it possible to get a rebuilt one or is it possible to rebuild this one?
Should the last letter in the Model # be a D or either A,B, or C?
Additional Info - DSO - 15, TRANS - U, DATE - 27F, AXLE - 1, TRIM - 2A
Thanks,
LP
Welcome! :)
That's a nice inheritance. Someone must think a lot of you.
Would love to see some pictures of it.
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I'll work on getting pictures of it.
What makes it "California Emissions"?
Thanks for your patience, I'm a newbie at this stuff.
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What makes it "California Emissions"?
It's the selection of internal items, jets, atomizers, booster venturies, plus external settings. The emphasis was on low NoX, and hydrocarbons. Mileage was secondary. If you buy an original 4100 from an auto parts store, you will get a "generic" one size fits all using what ever internals are available. When Pony Carbs was in business, you got pretty much everything correct.
Jim
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C70F-9510-D comes back as 390 Auto Trans, Mustang, Cougar, Comet, Fairlane w/ California Emissions
+1 from my other reference manuals
I'll work on getting pictures of it.
Should look pretty similar to this one without the dashpot.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/firetrainer/Indiviual%20Parts/eng%20indivual%20parts/Holleyauto_zps0494244e.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/firetrainer/media/Indiviual%20Parts/eng%20indivual%20parts/Holleyauto_zps0494244e.jpg.html)
What makes it "California Emissions"?
Your car likely haas a DSO or 71 or 72 indicating that it was ordered (and likely delivered) from a dealer in California which required the thermactor system to be installed that year on cars sold in that state
Your system is likely missing since many owners removed them over the years.
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Just inherited a 1967 GTA Convertible with the 390 CI engine. Is the correct carburetor a Holley 4 Barrel #C70F9510D?
Is it possible to get a rebuilt one or is it possible to rebuild this one?
Should the last letter in the Model # be a D or either A,B, or C?
Additional Info - DSO - 15, TRANS - U, DATE - 27F, AXLE - 1, TRIM - 2A
Thanks,
LP
If your car is indeed a DSO 15, Jeffs comment on DSO 71 or 72 isn't right. More likely the carb was switched out or exchanged along the way with the wrong one. Rebuilders did that a lot.
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67gtasanjose is correct - a 390 Automatic for DSO 15 would have most likely used the C70F-9510-B carb...
Here are a few shots of one for reference:
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So, visually there's really no difference between the B & the D model? It's the internal "stuff" that's different?
I'm pretty positive that the car is a DSO 15.
Anyone know where to get a B Model? Or where to swap my D Model for a B model?
Thanks,
Larry
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Though not as likely as just the carb being swapped out somewhere in time, but the engine itself actually could have been swapped out complete with carb too. DSO 15 would not have been a Calif Equipped emissions, true. If you are truly concerned about matching up the numbers, maybe you can also confirm the numbers on the block and heads, as well as intake manfolds before hunting down another carb. No point swapping just the carb if the engine itself is also a Cally model...just saying. ???
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Thanks for all the great info. I'm pretty confident it's the correct engine and that all numbers match.
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Anyone know where to get a B Model? Or where to swap my D Model for a B model?
Your going to be placing ads on a bunch of the forum sites and hope for the best. While your at it ask for a specific time period for the date but mention in the wanted ad that "other will be considered"
Good luck Believe I've only got Thermactor manual carbs
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Anyone know where to get a B Model? Or where to swap my D Model for a B model?
I've emailed a friend who worked for Pony Carbs and has done restoration work on these.
I'll see if he can help locate one fro you too
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So, visually there's really no difference between the B & the D model? It's the internal "stuff" that's different?
I'm pretty positive that the car is a DSO 15.
Anyone know where to get a B Model? Or where to swap my D Model for a B model?
Thanks,
Larry
Before you go through the hunt of finding a B do a little homework. Not saying the carb is original but it seems unlikely it would have got swapped for same year/engine carb from different DSO. Confirm your DSO, do you have actual build date of car (Marti report)? What is the date on the carb? It is a 3 number or number/letter code under the carb part # on the airhorn. Look for other Thermactor clues such as missing/unused/wrong bracketry on passenger front of engine. Also see if heads have smog tube ports plugged right near your exhaust ports
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Before you go through the hunt of finding a B do a little homework. Not saying the carb is original but it seems unlikely it would have got swapped for same year/engine carb from different DSO. Confirm your DSO, do you have actual build date of car (Marti report)? What is the date on the carb? It is a 3 number or number/letter code under the carb part # on the airhorn. Look for other Thermactor clues such as missing/unused/wrong bracketry on passenger front of engine. Also see if heads have smog tube ports plugged right near your exhaust ports
+1 on these thoughts & questions. Something seems "fishey" from the start of this thread, but cannot seem to figure it out with the info presented.
That is why I was asking to check the actual engine (build) numbers too. Trying to establish fact from fiction. My thoughts are to at least get this carb he has refurbished to enjoy the ride untill all of the rest is sorted out and correct parts & pieces are assembled for the "concours correctness".
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Give Kurt a try. He's the one who used to work with Jon at Pony Carbs I was talking about. Check your PM that I sent you to another link of his eBay listings too.
btw, He's mentioned at another thread here on Concours too:
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=4812.0
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I know it's a stretch, but here's another thought (and I'm not sure why anybody outside of California would have done it)...
The "Exhaust Emission Control System" was listed as an option on all 1967 Mustang Order sheets, so in theory, a person from any DSO (not just 71 & 72) could have placed an order for a C-6/390 car with the Thermactor system - and therefore a car for DSO 15 could have been originally built with a 390 engine with the C70F-9510-D carburetor (and presumably the rest of the Thermactor system was removed at a later date).
lpprice1024 - do you have a Marti Report for the car, and if so, is there any mention of the "Exhaust Emission Control" option?
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..................... and therefore a car for DSO 15 could have been originally built with a 390 engine with the C70F-9510-D carburetor (and presumably the rest of the Thermactor system was removed at a later date).
Consider that many of the documents printed were printed before production or sales started and may include things not really available or correct (remember the 427 engine being listed in the sale lit in 68?
I would say that until Kevin finds an example of this I would think it wasn't a true option IMHO
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Consider that many of the documents printed were printed before production or sales started and may include things not really available or correct (remember the 427 engine being listed in the sale lit in 68?
I would say that until Kevin finds an example of this I would think it wasn't a true option IMHO
Hi Jeff,
With all due respect, I think this is a little different than something printed in a pre-production sales brochure...
Unlike the '68 427, we know for a fact that Ford put hundreds of 390 engines with the Thermactor Exhaust Emission Control System in the '67 Mustangs destined for DSOs 71 and 72 - so Ford built this engine, and they actually installed it in the Mustang...
Regarding the documentation, there were at least two versions of dealer order sheets for the 1967 Mustang (attached below are examples of the June 1966 and November 1966 versions - are there any later versions?) and both of them list the Exhaust Emission Control System as option "L" for section 43 (or option "O" on the later sheet if they ordered it with the GT option)...
All I'm saying is that I don't see anything on the order sheets, nor have I read anything in the Ford literature that was printed at the time that would have prevented somebody from a DSO outside of California from choosing that particular option if they really wanted it...
Like you say, Kevin Marti should be able to easily confirm this one way or another...
Cheers!
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See the attached.
Exhaust emission control option on a 289 Dearborn car delivered to Iowa.
Clearly not an exact match regarding engine and so on, but does indicate that the option was real at least when this car was ordered.
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Hi Jeff,
With all due respect, I think this is a little different than something printed in a pre-production sales brochure...
Wasn't referring to brochures or anything like those sorts :)
No problem respectful discussion is a good thing. Plenty to learn and plenty to still discover
Regarding the documentation, there were at least two versions of dealer order sheets for the 1967 Mustang (attached below are examples of the June 1966 and November 1966 versions - are there any later versions?) and both of them list the Exhaust Emission Control System as option "L" for section 43 (or option "O" on the later sheet if they ordered it with the GT option)...
Believe there is a Feb or March version also I've seen
See the attached.
Exhaust emission control option on a 289 Dearborn car delivered to Iowa.
Clearly not an exact match regarding engine and so on, but does indicate that the option was real at least when this car was ordered.
Might also be the result of moving inventory, needing a specific car and a transfer from another location towards the end of the year or a couple of other possibilities. Would be interesting to see the DSO
We have seen examples of cars being ordered in ordered in non- Thermactor DSO's being ordered through those DSO but being delivered in California in 67. This sort of examples can lead us to all sorts of assumptions IMHO
Remembering these cars - checking with Kevin would not show where these examples were delivered but only where they were ordered through making that way of checking not helpful in this discussion.
But guess we should leave this one to sleep and develop as we find any new facts since this thread has gone off track a bit ;)
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Thanks for all the great ideas. I'm having the carb rebuilt. Should pick it up tomorrow. Also having some work done on some fluid leaks. I just don't have any time to do these things myself. Once I get the car back I will post all the numbers that have been mentioned.
Thanks,
LP
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Which Marti report would you recommend?
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Which Marti report would you recommend?
That would depend on what all you wish to have. "click" on the DETAILS tab to see which one you would preffer. Any report would answer most of your questions. You'll wait several months to get the ELITE report sent, though you still get the emailed copy in about a week or two.
I just bought the ELITE in Mid December, got the framed copy a few weeks ago, got the emailed version in about a week.
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Which Marti report would you recommend?
I've never purchased anything but the Deluxe report. Don't really care if the car is one of whatever nor cared to frame any of the dozen or more that I've purchased. I have at times, made a copy and stuck it on a car from time to time.
Just me ;)
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I do like the Elite report as my choice, but I bought my then 10 year old car at age 16 in 1978 as my first car and do not ever plan on selling it. My car bought in original, beaten and whipped, without any history condition. (a rescue) My intentions are that the report will stay with the car after I am gone to trace it's history better when I am not around to do it myself. I am searching for every detail possible about it's history to keep with it. One day, it will probably go to one of my grandchildren as an inheritance, just like you inherited yours. If you already have the whole history on a car, or do not care to have it, then the Elite Report is only like having a trophy plaque on your wall. I agree with Jeff's comment about Deluxe reports, probably a great middle of the road approach. You can always order up the Elite option later at a reduced (pay the difference) cost if ever you wanted to. The Standard report IMO, is a good "buyers guide" if you are trying to establish a car's authenticity, but do not know yet if you will actually buy it.
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Thanks for the info. Just got the carb back from Custom Rebuilt Carbs in Middlesex, NJ. It looks great. I'll be installing it this weekend.
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Thanks for the info. Just got the carb back from Custom Rebuilt Carbs in Middlesex, NJ. It looks great. I'll be installing it this weekend.
Most likely some fo the finishes are not like original - carb rebuilders always seen to take everything off and plate all the steel parts the same finish - zinc dichromate
Just a heads uo ;)
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Kurt, formerly with Pony Carbs does work like this:
I'm no expert in the "EXACT" aspects of each model, but this looks far better than "just any rebuilder" does IMO.
These are plated & NOT painted.
I am very please with his work. Very fast turn-around also.
(note: This image is NOT of a Mustang Carb., just serves an example of quality in workmanship)
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Kurt, formerly with Pony Carbs does work like this:
I'm no expert in the "EXACT" aspects of each model, but this looks far better than "just any rebuilder" does IMO.
These are plated & NOT painted.
I am very please with his work. Very fast turn-around also.
(note: This image is NOT of a Mustang Carb., just serves an example of quality in workmanship)
Kurt's main job is working in a plant as a plating specialist, so he's an expert in that arena. I found that out googling his name.
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Here is a couple of pictures of a NOS 4300 I've had for years. Purchased with a big lot of parts given to a Portland high school back in 68-69 so not a rebuilt carb
Parts were well stored in climate controlled conditions so they don't show any age
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-290414151623.jpeg)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-010514205724.jpeg)
Lots of different platings used on all the different linkage, arms and bolt on parts.