ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1964 1/2 - 1965 => Topic started by: CobraSpeed on November 16, 2014, 09:20:41 PM
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NOTE: Original poster removed their first post but thread was left since it got allot of responses, has information still worthy of sharing and may help others in evaluating (in general) purchases in the future
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At 2:02 of the 3rd video, are those staple holes? Game over?
Car looks nice but loaded with repo parts...many not installed correctly....or even correct.
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Nice catch!
+1 . big red flag.
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Looks like floor panel grafted in which would explain dual exhaust brake line however exhaust is not hung correct for a factory dual exhaust car...it's not obvious if you don't know ;)
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The spare tire wing nut is incorrect. Looks like the repo that being used.
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Several parts/pieces look like they were severely rusted/pitted then sand blasted and painted. The pits are still there.
+1 on everyone's comments - LOTS of RED Flags.
One example is the horn mounting brackets:
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp75/hopeto/rust_zpsb1ea86e8.jpg) (http://s399.photobucket.com/user/hopeto/media/rust_zpsb1ea86e8.jpg.html)
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Some of the Hipo specific body features are even mimicked, both incorrectly. I don't want to write an FAQ for fraudsters so I'm leaving out the fine details.
+1 - close, but NO cigar!
Is door data plate original or reproduction?
I do think the door plate is an original based on the axle code being off center and not "perfect" like the repops.
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Several parts/pieces look like they were severely rusted/pitted then sand blasted and painted. The pits are still there.
+1 on everyone's comments - LOTS of RED Flags.
I certainly don't take exception to your observations. There's a lot on this car that could've been done better. But let's step back for a minute away from planet perfect to planet reality. Exactly how much money do you sink into a coupe, K code or not, before its time to stop ?
Yes, some of the work is crap. Yes, it's possile that the inner apron with the VIN has been replaced and restamped. Even if the price were right , any buyer would want to check the hidden VINs, not just on this car, but ANY car.
Yes there are reproduction parts everywhere,. That can't really be a surprise these days. Possibly 1 member out of 100 on this forum has a car with zero reproduction parts, and that's being generous. The supply of NOS parts is not infinate, nor makes financial sense to load down a coupe with them, except as a statement of what can be done when money is no object .
But clearly, this car was not restored to the level of quality that is acceptable to most of us on this forum. Not surprising, as we are pretty darn particular. If I was trying to sell this car on eBay, or anywhere else, I'd be sure to point out the shortcomings before anyone else could.
Z
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+1 zray... well said. I will also say that perhaps the radiator support was replaced with one from a six cylinder car,, one that had the staple holes. I had to replace my rad support on my 64 1/2 with a correct "vented" one because the PO was backed into by a truck and had swapped it out for a more common 66' style. I had to replace all those specific 64 1/2 parts that took me sometime to track down-- beveled headlight buckets, early hood, rad support,etc.. You just never know the cars history. I guess either way, correct or not, someone will be paying for that door tag and title! Looks to be a great driver.
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It's certainly eye-catching, but there are definitely some things that stand out. Shouldn't the grille be blacked out for a GT?
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It's certainly eye-catching, but there are definitely some things that stand out. Shouldn't the grille be blacked out for a GT?
yes. the most notiecable thing was the undercarriage paint treatment. too neat.
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+1 zray... well said. I will also say that perhaps the radiator support was replaced with one from a six cylinder car,, one that had the staple holes. I had to replace my rad support on my 64 1/2 with a correct "vented" one because the PO was backed into by a truck and had swapped it out for a more common 66' style. I had to replace all those specific 64 1/2 parts that took me sometime to track down-- beveled headlight buckets, early hood, rad support,etc.. You just never know the cars history. I guess either way, correct or not, someone will be paying for that door tag and title! Looks to be a great driver.
It is a distinct possibility that a radiator support was put in based on the fact that so much else was replaced too. Based on the level of workmanship skill seen elsewhere it should be relatively easy to determine if the radiator support had been replaced or not ;) .
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Is the red primer undercarriage incorrect for a '66 Dearborn?
I believe so plus the black paint on just the framerails definitely isn't correct.
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Here's my gripe sheet, not in any particular order - (comments in parenthesis)
- Rear drum blackout for Style Steel Wheels (sometimes omitted if dealer added wheels)
- Pinch weld blackout
- (Front license plate but no rear?)
- LH shock tower nut should be -S8, as well as the studs
- Fuel line bracket not painted blue
- Fuel line clip should be -S2
- Wrong fuel pump
- Radiator overflow tube should be black hose (ribbed?)
- Exhaust manifold should be Ramp-Lok based on assembly date of 19 Mar 66 (change over 1 Dec 65)
- Plug wires not factory
- By-pass hose and clamps should be painted blue
- Distributor clamp should be natural (-S2?)
- Distributor clamp bolt should be -S8
- Stud on carburetor for air cleaner incorrect
- Choke mechanism on carburetor not correct
- Distributor date code is 20 Oct 65, car is 19 Mar 66
- Painted screw(s) on door for latch (should be -S8)
- Bolt on door not painted body color
- ? Metal retainer on door courtesy light switch (white plastic)
- Clamp missing at resonator to exhaust tip
- Rear springs should be darker as in heat treated
- Wrong bolts at rear resonator hanger (too long)
- Frame rails (4) should be primerede, not painted black
- Bolts on trunk lid hinge (4) should be body color
- ? Seat belt warning light without retractors
- Grill not blacked out for GT option
- Bolts (a few) on water pump not correct
- Teflon tape on manifold outlet to heater
- Teflon tape on temperature sensor
There's probably more.
With the exception of the fuel pump, everything else looks like it can be fixed easily. The carburetor may or may not be correct, check with the HP Forum.
Jim
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I have a one owner original paint 1965 C code fastback that has the same holes in the radiator support. Being that my car has NEVER been painted and that I've been in the collision business and Mustang hobby for more than 30 years it's possible this radiator support is original to this car. Also, the factory installed a coupe B pillar on the right side of my fastback and then leaded the area where the vent window would have been. Remember, how many Mustangs did Ford sell by the 66 model year ? Most are the same but there are variations.
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No, but my Uncle did.
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Oct 20, 1975? ;) Its a Motorcraft housing. Also the 65/66 would be all letters.
Yeah, you can see the "M" in the shadow, it's a replacement. I was distracted by New England picking on Indianapolis. And "all letters" except the year, as in 5KC.
Jim
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Rims are all repops too, though I understand that is acceptable for Concours. In my opinion, allowing such things as "concours correct" take away from those who are showing restored/reburished originals. But I am sure opinions vary on such things.
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Based on the level of workmanship skill seen elsewhere it should be relatively easy to determine if the radiator support had been replaced or not ;) .
You mean like this? ;)
Ignore anything that can be bolted on, original, NOS or repop. There are limited number of frame and sheetmetal details unique to a GT or dual exhaust car. 3 that I can see in detail are not correct.
Build sheet, invoice and welded sheetmetal dates could help change my mind that this is something more than a donor chassis with a mix of parts.
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What manual transmission is installed? It is not a Toploader.
T10
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No kick panel carpet/trim.
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- The carb. is an above average C6ZF-C clone that was re-stamped. Some of the Hipo specific body features are even mimicked, both incorrectly. I don't want to write an FAQ for fraudsters so I'm leaving out the fine details.
Wow, nice try.
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I hate those Styled Steel Wheels that have a gold tint to the painted inserts. It looks awful. I bought a set of these, not knowing about the "charcoal" inserts not being charcoal. I opened the first box, then sent them back to the vendor.
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The engine fan is a repo.
With the transmission, fuel pump, engine fan and carburetor being high end items by themselves, this Kar is already overpriced if those items were the only issues.
-Fred-
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Besides the choke cable, what else is that coming through firewall?
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Besides the choke cable, what else is that coming through firewall?
I believe that the second thing that you are seeing is the wire loom to the heater motor and starter solenoid.
-Fred-
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I believe that the second thing that you are seeing is the wire loom to the heater motor and starter solenoid.
-Fred-
There is another black thing smaller than the choke cable. The wire loom would be the 3rd thing... ;)
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There is another black thing smaller than the choke cable. The wire loom would be the 3rd thing... ;)
I may not have explained myself fully in my statement. I am not referring to the plug as my second thing. In looking at other pictures in the auction, I feel that the smaller thing that you are seeing is the wire loom to the heater motor and starter solenoid.
-Fred-
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I hate those Styled Steel Wheels that have a gold tint to the painted inserts. It looks awful. I bought a set of these, not knowing about the "charcoal" inserts not being charcoal. I opened the first box, then sent them back to the vendor.
That's exactly why I sold the SSW's that came with my car., ugh.
Z
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That's exactly why I sold the SSW's that came with my car., ugh.
I'm glad it's not just me, then! That's one of those things that once you see it, you can't unsee it. And those wheels are everywhere. I see them all the time at shows. Drives me crazy.
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I may not have explained myself fully in my statement. I am not referring to the plug as my second thing. In looking at other pictures in the auction, I feel that the smaller thing that you are seeing is the wire loom to the heater motor and starter solenoid.
-Fred-
The starter solenoid and heater run off the main harness not from a diffeent hole in the firewall. A few cups of coffee has me seeing better, looks like its a wire running to the solenoid to power something not original to the car.
So the next question, is that a factory stamped hole originally used for AC compressor or did someone use a 1/2 inch bit to drill a hole for 1 wire?
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Looks like December 19, 1966 which would be a 1967 Mustang. "Back To The Future" again? I guess that's why the "resto shop" couldn't verify the block's VIN.
Jim
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Looks like December 19, 1966 which would be a 1967 Mustang. "Back To The Future" again? I guess that's why the "resto shop" couldn't verify the block's VIN.
Jim
+1, I wouldn't be interested in that block for my Nov 66 either! I already have a "later built" 67 289 in it and it's a fresh and strong runner yet has the wrong date castings on it ???
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Block casting picture sent by seller.
Not surprised. Fastback99, if you are thinking about purchasing this, I started to google Southern Hot Rods and this was suggested: http://southern-hot-rods.pissedconsumer.com/?order=top
After reading this, I listened to the first video again...something doesn't sound right in the engine
I stand by my earlier comment, ignore anything that can be bolted on or painted and take a very close look at the sheetmetal (non-body) and frame. Someone on this forum who knows more about the details than I ever will pointed out something I missed (didn't know) further supporting that this car did not start it's life as a Hipo
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The auction ended on this car 11-24-2014 at $26,450.00 with the reserve not met.
-Fred-
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This Kar is back on Ebay again as a reserve price auction with a $1,000 starting bid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-/281511691940?vxp=mtr
-Fred-
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This Kar is back on Ebay again as a reserve price auction with a $1,000 starting bid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-/281511691940?vxp=mtr
-Fred-
This kind over the top hype description begs for comment and with all of the going on about the scale of 10 details and engine perfectly detailed as far as he knows but fails to say "non K code chassis as far as he knows" :o . Not trying to be vague to tease but I hate to be real specific for fear of the unscrupulous to correct the specific detail.
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Don't blame you for being vague. I hesitate to post some things for the same reason, and sometimes will get a couple opinions before I do.
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Anyone see the description on this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-Real-and-Authentic-MCA-quality-1965-Mustang-GT-/251732878654?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a9c72e53e&item=251732878654&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
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The VIN, 5F07A318900, show up in the Mustang Production Guide as being built around October 12, 1964, not their claimed date of May 12, 1965. It's not a GT. Anything else claimed needs to be looked at with extreme caution.
Jim
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Don't even know where to start with that one. Is there another 'MCA' acronym that means something other than Mustang Club of America?? I'm having a hard time seeing that this car would place in any MCA class.
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EBay needs to add a comments section below each product where people can add commments prior to sale. It might be a zoo, but many I've wanted to comment on..
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Don't even know where to start with that one. Is there another 'MCA' acronym that means something other than Mustang Club of America??........
Don't you remember, Lynyrd Skynyd's lyrics saying, "Working for the MCA"? Music Corporation of America....Thought I'd just throw that at'cha.
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Don't you remember, Lynyrd Skynyd's lyrics saying, "Working for the MCA"? Music Corporation of America....Thought I'd just throw that at'cha.
"Nine thousand dollars, that's all we could win, but we smiled at the Yankee slicker with a big 'ol Southern grin..." ;D
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"Nine thousand dollars, that's all we could win, but we smiled at the Yankee slicker with a big 'ol Southern grin..." ;D
Lol. Yep 8)
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The VIN, 5F07A318900, show up in the Mustang Production Guide as being built around October 12, 1964, not their claimed date of May 12, 1965. It's not a GT. Anything else claimed needs to be looked at with extreme caution.
Jim
Just the picture of the empty dash at the instrument cluster is enough to know that this could have never been a factory GT. It does not have the extra relief for the speedometer that GT and luxury décor (pony interior) cars have.
-Fred-
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Just the picture of the empty dash at the instrument cluster is enough to know that this could have never been a factory GT. It does not have the extra relief for the speedometer that GT and luxury décor (pony interior) cars have.
-Fred-
Good catch.
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This Kar is back on Ebay again as a reserve price auction with a $1,000 starting bid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-/281511691940?vxp=mtr
-Fred-
This Kar ended at a lower price this time of $24,101 and again did not meet the sellers reserve.
-Fred-
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This Kar ended at a lower price this time of $24,101 and again did not meet the sellers reserve.
-Fred-
I took another look at the Wimbledon White "GT," and I noticed it must've been painted in pieces, or else the doors have been repainted since the rest of the car was finished. If you look in the picture where the photographer is crouching down by the passenger's side of the rear bumper and looking down the side of the car, you can see the passenger door has more of a yellow hue to it than the quarter and front fender. Not good.
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This Kar is back on Ebay again as a reserve price auction with a $1,000 starting bid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-/281511691940?vxp=mtr
-Fred-
This Kar is back on Ebay again as a reserve price auction with a $1,000 starting bid:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Mustang-GT-/281521133795?vxp=mtr
-Fred-
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Wow. Somebody paid a lot of money for a fake.
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I can't believe anyone's that's naïve!! Even if it was all correct (and it's FAR from correct) it would not be worth anywhere close to that money!!! IMO!
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For that much $$ I'd want working horns... :o
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What happened to the original post? Looks like it's been deleted?
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Not sure, maybe a misunderstanding with something posted about talking about current cars for sale.
I personally like the posts where pics are posted and we can offer input on right/wrong. Just need to be respectful when doing it.
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Not sure, maybe a misunderstanding with something posted about talking about current cars for sale.
I personally like the posts where pics are posted and we can offer input on right/wrong. Just need to be respectful when doing it.
Same here, that's one of my favorite aspects of the site.
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Not sure, maybe a misunderstanding with something posted about talking about current cars for sale.
I personally like the posts where pics are posted and we can offer input on right/wrong. Just need to be respectful when doing it.
+1 on the respectful thing...Once and a while I can go off center a bit on that...but I FULLY agree with trying to be respectful. Not EVERYONE selling what they believe as authentic is actually unscrupulous...sometimes they do not (yet) know they have been taken advantage of so using "kid gloves" might not hurt as much when discussing things about the workmanship or authenticity. Just my opinion...