ConcoursMustang Forums

1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1970 Mustang => Topic started by: bgp429 on February 18, 2019, 08:52:21 PM

Title: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: bgp429 on February 18, 2019, 08:52:21 PM
Wondering if any other car built around the same time has a silver metallic slop color on the floor?  Don't think the car has been ever been painted in this area. Car is white. Picture is one of the floor access holes for the seats with the rubber plug removed.   Dearborn Boss 302 built on 6-1-70.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on June 05, 2019, 06:26:59 PM
By 70 at Dearborn we have found a much much wider range or possible colors found on floor boards/undercarriages from the firewall rearward. This may be a result of a wider and somewhat wilder range of exterior colors introduced that year. Most notable IMHO were the cars with a medium greenish floor color especially on cars with exterior colors such as orange or red

Looking at pictures and notes. I haven't seen a light gray or light silver on a 70 Dearborn example until your pictures though have seen and documented a few during 69 production

Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: 70b302cat on June 06, 2019, 06:55:35 PM
Jeff,

I think he is looking for information on late 0F production not 9F
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on June 06, 2019, 07:53:42 PM
Jeff,

I think he is looking for information on late 0F production not 9F

thanks - guess I need to reword it differently. 

Went back and adjusted ;)
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: specialed on June 18, 2019, 10:16:21 AM
Has anybody seen or got photos of a 70  original  dearborn undercarriage with red oxide?
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on June 18, 2019, 06:08:35 PM
Has anybody seen or got photos of a 70  original  dearborn undercarriage with red oxide?

Ed there was a post over on the Boss site at one point (didn't save the thread) that reported that the floor was red oxide. Car identified as KK 1383. Cant confirm nor were any pictures posted.

Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: specialed on June 18, 2019, 07:58:57 PM
yes correct but thats an early 69 as i was asking about 70 dearborn
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on June 18, 2019, 08:34:12 PM
yes correct but thats an early 69 as i was asking about 70 dearborn

Sorry that was posted as a 70 I thought.

Think this was asked and discussed before but always good to see if someone new has something to offer
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: speedgeek on June 30, 2019, 12:19:24 PM
My 6/24/70 Dearborn car's under side floors are kind of a green color.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: twl1104 on June 30, 2019, 07:01:59 PM
My 1970 Cobra Torino the under belly color was almost a PINK color !My 1970 Mach 1 is a medium grey. The Torino was a Sept 69 build, but the Mustang was a May 1970 build?
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on June 30, 2019, 07:52:39 PM
My 6/24/70 Dearborn car's under side floors are kind of a green color.

Green is an often seen result of the "slop" paint outcome in 70 at Dearborn. How would you describe the green?  Lighter or a darker olive green?  Thanks added it to the list/spreadsheet

My 1970 Cobra Torino the under belly color was almost a PINK color !My 1970 Mach 1 is a medium grey. The Torino was a Sept 69 build, but the Mustang was a May 1970 build?

Since the Torino was built at another plant its color will often be different the Mustang and finding a grey is fairly common

Pinks are often a tint found of the red oxide base on in other plants for Mustangs and different time periods
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: speedgeek on July 11, 2019, 11:15:59 AM
Here's an underside pic of my car.  I'd say it's medium to dark in color.  In the drips our can see some yellow.

(https://i.imgur.com/FV6Oxs4.jpg)
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: bgp429 on January 15, 2020, 12:26:10 PM
My 70 Dearborn has a sort of silver green color on the floor. Only owned the car for about 15 years but doubt anyone ever painted the area. It is under one of the floor plugs near the front.

 http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19893.0
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on January 15, 2020, 02:18:04 PM
My 70 Dearborn has a sort of silver green color on the floor. Only owned the car for about 15 years but doubt anyone ever painted the area. It is under one of the floor plugs near the front.

 http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19893.0

Yes as discussed in a number of threads the "slop" paint mixer was a much wider range in 70 due likely to all the brighter colors and number of cars ordered with those colors that year.  Made for some interesting and sometimes not so pleasing combinations such as green tinted floors on an orange exterior car. 69's built at Dearborn were generally in a much arrow range 
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Crgjohnson on January 15, 2020, 02:22:57 PM
This my original undercarriage slop gray from a Oct 7th 69 BOSS 302 Dearborn built.

Craig
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Armond on January 18, 2020, 12:20:35 AM
I supposed the fan in the paint area could have been so strong it sucked the the black over spray straight down and would not over spray. You would think they would have done something. On the Boss 429 I finished recently I found this odd tape off on the cowl, before the Pastel blue was applied, showing gray sealer underneath.  Maybe they taped off the cowl opening?  It was on both sides, Here is a pic I saved.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on January 19, 2020, 06:27:51 PM
................On the Boss 429 I finished recently I found this odd tape off on the cowl, before the Pastel blue was applied, showing gray sealer underneath.  Maybe they taped off the cowl opening?  It was on both sides, Here is a pic I saved.

Armond - 69 or 70?

Believe I have a number of similar pictures/examples from Dearborn. Either tape or small sections of paper or forms left in place
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Armond on January 19, 2020, 07:24:14 PM
it is a 70.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on January 19, 2020, 07:44:10 PM
Thanks

Though it doesn't appear to be typical (lot more without than with so far) I'm unsure if this was something one shift did for a particular production period . Included partcial VINs to see if a pattern can be found

My guess is that these held a copy of the buildsheet prior to painting that someone assigned to typically remove them for got it on these examples

0F157xxx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-190120184012.jpeg)


Unknown
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-190120184034.jpeg)


0F1689xx
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-190120184124.jpeg)


0F172xxx PS
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-190120184304.jpeg)


0F172xxx DS
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-190120184351.jpeg)
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Armond on January 20, 2020, 02:35:05 AM
Those a great examples!  The tape line seems a bit wide for a build sheet. Either way interesting.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: K-HESS on November 05, 2022, 08:47:33 PM
A couple pictures of green slop that I found on the remains of a Dearborn built 1970 mach1. It has an apron stamping of 0F178xxx. Original body color is yellow
Title: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Danymichy on November 12, 2022, 12:01:43 PM
Hi everyone, thanks for accepting me in the forum.
Sorry for my English, I'm Italian and I bought one two years ago
 1970 Mustang Sportsroof 250 1V.
From Marty's report I know it was produced in Dearborn on June 3, 1970, was yellow # 3470-A and is an export.
Over the years it has been completely repainted and anti-noise added to the underbody.
I started the restoration to bring it back to its most original condition (there will never be concours for these cars here, but I want it to be as original as possible).
The body has been completely stripped, the rust sheets fixed and now the painting phase begins ....
Reading your forum a bit, I read that the underbody may not be the classic red-oxide, what color should it be?
How should it be painted?
At what stage and where should the anti-noise be sprayed?
Is it correct that the engine compartment should be semigloss black?
Here it is not easy to find information of this level ....
Much appreciated photos to be shown to my coachbuilder.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Title: Re: 1970 Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Coralsnake on November 12, 2022, 12:53:00 PM
Your answers are here

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5718.0
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: cobrajet_carl on November 12, 2022, 09:17:58 PM
If the car was stripped before being checked for the batch paint, it may be lost forever. Removing the plugs for the seat attachment nuts may reveal the original batch color.
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: hopey on November 12, 2022, 09:43:13 PM
Go to the library section of the forum, under the 1970 the Undercarriage - Finishes and Sealer Guide for 1970 Dearborn Built Mustangs is a good starting point.

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=5718.0
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Danymichy on November 13, 2022, 02:18:03 AM
If the car was stripped before being checked for the batch paint, it may be lost forever. Removing the plugs for the seat attachment nuts may reveal the original batch color.
unfortunately it got lost ... I didn't check it before stripping it.
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Danymichy on November 13, 2022, 02:21:04 AM
This is a good starting point.

https://www.docdroid.net/5tvxiBm/cmf-70-dearborn-undercarriage-8-2017-v3-open-pdf
Many thanks
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: J_Speegle on November 13, 2022, 03:02:36 AM
First welcome to the site. Hope you find the information and support helpful in your restoration project

unfortunately it got lost ... I didn't check it before stripping it.

Yes too many owners or builders think that they don't need to document their car before they start the restoration process and believe there is someone out there that can tell them every detail. What we have discovered over the years and here weekly at least, is that each plant did many things differently and in your examples related to the undercarriage finishes, different almost from day to day. Often they are similar and follow patterns. Unfortunately now you will have to use information collected from the few examples from other cars built around the same time period and same plant.  The article posted (Hint ;)you can find it in the Library under the 1970 headings) should be a decent start and give you and you builder a general idea of the process, layers and in what order. Once you get through that you will likely be in a better place to ask additional questions about colors of primer/sealer/ batch colors used around the same time as your car

Again welcome
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Danymichy on November 13, 2022, 05:50:00 PM
First welcome to the site. Hope you find the information and support helpful in your restoration project

Yes too many owners or builders think that they don't need to document their car before they start the restoration process and believe there is someone out there that can tell them every detail. What we have discovered over the years and here weekly at least, is that each plant did many things differently and in your examples related to the undercarriage finishes, different almost from day to day. Often they are similar and follow patterns. Unfortunately now you will have to use information collected from the few examples from other cars built around the same time period and same plant.  The article posted (Hint ;)you can find it in the Library under the 1970 headings) should be a decent start and give you and you builder a general idea of the process, layers and in what order. Once you get through that you will likely be in a better place to ask additional questions about colors of primer/sealer/ batch colors used around the same time as your car

Again welcome

My mustang had been repainted twice with two different colors before I took it apart.
I stripped it two years ago and I had no idea that the background color could be different from that of the car.
99% of Mustangs in Italy have a black background or covered with anti-noise ...
I looked at the links you recommended, I saw the painting methods, but my first question is whether the primer is batch color or red oxide?
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: J_Speegle on November 13, 2022, 11:46:44 PM
.....I looked at the links you recommended, I saw the painting methods, but my first question is whether the primer is batch color or red oxide?


For the period production you identified and looking at the few examples I have from that period I would go with a batch color from the firewall rearward and red oxide a batch color similar to the rear or a different color from approx the firewall forward. Sources for each (floor and firewall forward were from different sources in the plant like earlier years

Here is an example of a pretty dark gray without either a blue or green tint often seen IMHO from a car possibly built within days of your car at Dearborn.
The area to focus on it directly below the bracket where it is not reflecting any light from the flashlight and has been protected from the elements for all these years.  Rest of the exposed floor on this example did not generate any good exposed areas leaving us with just the little peek

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-131122224327-181012166.jpeg)


Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: Danymichy on November 14, 2022, 05:11:19 AM

For the period production you identified and looking at the few examples I have from that period I would go with a batch color from the firewall rearward and red oxide from approx the firewall forward

Here is an example of a pretty dark gray without either a blue or green tint often seen IMHO from a car possibly built within days of your car at Dearborn.
The area to focus on it directly below the bracket where it is not reflecting any light from the flashlight and has been protected from the elements for all these years.  Rest of the exposed floor on this example did not generate any good exposed areas leaving us with just the little peek

(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/18/6-131122224327-181012166.jpeg)




OK thank you.
Oxide red, but then the engine compartment should always be painted in semi-gloss black, right?
The red oxide won't show anymore, right?
Is it possible to see some example photos?
It will be clearer for my coachbuilder
thank you.
Title: Re: 1970 Dearborn Sportsroof 250 1V Undercarriage
Post by: J_Speegle on November 14, 2022, 05:59:50 AM
OK thank you.
Oxide red,

Will correct my post about but let me also correct it here. Sorry was thinking only of 69 but for 70 often the area from the firewall forward was sprayed with a batch color and often not the same color or from the same source as the floor from firewall rearward as it states in the article. Have found a few in a red oxide color but the vast majority had a batch color


but then the engine compartment should always be painted in semi-gloss black, right?
The red oxide won't show anymore, right?

The engine compartment and the radiator support would have been painted black along with the section of the cowl visible from the engine compartment (above the cowl to firewall pinch weld), under the exterior painted cowl cover and to the bottom of the windshield opening. There is a recent thread on that detail from the last month or so.

The color red oxide or batch would be visible in the front wheel well over which some body color and black paint would have been applied when those paints were applied by each painter at different times.


Of course the front wheel wells would have received a coating of sound deadener in some areas but not typically over all the outer facing surfaces of the inner fender panels or the back side of the fenders. Often a single pass or two did the job well enough to get it pass the inspectors. Rear wheel wells as shown in the article had sound deadener applied before the exterior color was applied. Same time/station as when the interior and trunk deadener was applied



Is it possible to see some example photos?

The cowl engine compartment paint extension as mentioned above

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=27479.0 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=27479.0)


Real late here at the moment. Will post some wheel well pictures later today
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Steve Schenck on January 04, 2023, 09:09:12 PM
K-Hess.. I find the pictures you posted of the remains of that 70 Mach 1 VIN# 178XXX interesting. I own a 70 Boss 302 VIN# ending 178168, that is currently being restored. It too has the green slop paint applied to the underside. However, I don't find any sign of it forward of the firewall, but the underside of the front cross member on my car is still covered with black paint.  Also my service decal was applied on the side panel of the engine compartment just as you've pictured in your post. I would be interested to know how close the remainder of this VIN is to mine.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on January 04, 2023, 10:23:04 PM
....................I would be interested to know how close the remainder of this VIN is to mine.

Would suggest that the difference or similarities in sequential numbers is not really that important or at least as important as the day the car was bucked and completed. Cars assembled one after another in the first half of production could be thousands or more different based on examples that have been documented. Unfortunately I don't have Marti reports (dates) for every one of the cars I have pictures of 

BTW - welcome to the site. Hope you find the support and information helpful in your related projects
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: ExportMach on January 05, 2023, 08:22:42 AM
Here is a pic of one of the underside of one of the seat pedestals. You can clearly see the slop gray overspray that came though the seat bolt access holes. My Mach is Dearborn built in March, 1970.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: K-HESS on January 05, 2023, 09:38:51 PM
K-Hess.. I find the pictures you posted of the remains of that 70 Mach 1 VIN# 178XXX interesting. I own a 70 Boss 302 VIN# ending 178168, that is currently being restored. It too has the green slop paint applied to the underside. However, I don't find any sign of it forward of the firewall, but the underside of the front cross member on my car is still covered with black paint.  Also my service decal was applied on the side panel of the engine compartment just as you've pictured in your post. I would be interested to know how close the remainder of this VIN is to mine.
the cars vin is 22 units before yours. As Jeff said no guarantee where they were in rotation. A Marti report would show if they were built the same day.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Steve Schenck on January 17, 2023, 05:53:37 PM
Thank you for the reply Jeff.. I have seen Marty reports on a few 70 cars with VIN's in the 178000, to 179000 range, and each of them have an assembly date of April 20th. I find unusual things, such as the specification sticker on the side panel, rather than the shock tower to be interesting and believe it was very llikely the same person who put it there.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: J_Speegle on January 17, 2023, 07:50:46 PM
Thank you for the reply Jeff.. I have seen Marty reports on a few 70 cars with VIN's in the 178000, to 179000 range, and each of them have an assembly date of April 20th. I find unusual things, such as the specification sticker on the side panel, rather than the shock tower to be interesting and believe it was very likely the same person who put it there.

Steve suggest that you add your cars VIN or more importantly the real build date to the thread below so we can keep these together for others to find when they do a search for the information

Yes this sort of details can often be connected or explains, when they are repetitive over a period of time not a one off, to an individual or individuals working specific shifts assigned to this task or others

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13991.msg86838#msg86838 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13991.msg86838#msg86838)
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Steve Schenck on January 22, 2023, 11:16:47 PM
the cars vin is 22 units before yours. As Jeff said no guarantee where they were in rotation. A Marti report would show if they were built the same day.

K-Hess,  Thank you for the information. Per my Marti Report, my car was scheduled for build on 4-17, but was actually built on 4-20.
Title: Re: 70 Dearborn Undercarriage Color Related Questions-Multi Merged Threads
Post by: Steve Schenck on January 22, 2023, 11:18:40 PM
Steve suggest that you add your cars VIN or more importantly the real build date to the thread below so we can keep these together for others to find when they do a search for the information

Yes this sort of details can often be connected or explains, when they are repetitive over a period of time not a one off, to an individual or individuals working specific shifts assigned to this task or others

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13991.msg86838#msg86838 (https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=13991.msg86838#msg86838)

Thank you Jeff.. I've added my information to the thread you linked.