ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1967 Shelby => Topic started by: Bossbill on August 04, 2022, 01:45:18 PM
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There is a smattering of info all over the site regarding Ford and Shelby gaskets. But things like oil pan gaskets allude to "that's not assembly line" without mentioning what IS assy line.
What makes color important on Shelbys is that the intake was replaced at the engine plant and the color of the gasket is visible. Same with the thermostat gasket.
With different valve covers the unpainted valve cover gaskets are also visible. The fuel pump gasket is always visible on all 289s.
Starting at the top of the engine:
Air cleaner to carb round gasket
- 0.175 thick, 5 1/2 OD, 5 ID, The top and bottom side have a red adhesive applied to create a pattern. Tan on the sides. See pic
Carb Base Gasket
- No data
Valve cover gaskets
- Cork, black surfaces. Triangular tabs as in previous years.
Intake Gaskets
- From Jeff's post these are white Raybestos. From the lettering and style of gasket it may be the same material as the fuel pump gasket.
Thermostat Gasket
- Darker tan, see pics further ]
Head Gasket
- At the front of the heads a small square section protrudes which sports a round hole. It's possible to lose a point over this since the aftermarket gaskets do not stick out or have this hole. Depends on the judge!
Timing Cover gasket to block
- Without today's extension on the right side that helps the gasket maintain its shape; Possibly black
Water pump gasket
- Without the extension on the right side above the water outlet
Fuel pump gasket
- White asbestos
Pan gasket
- I believe Ford used square gaskets with rounded edges that stuck out from the timing cover/oil pan in the front. Same black treatment as valve cover gaskets. May not matter since these are painted. But the style is important.
Updates made as more data comes in. Last update to this post 8/11/22.
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There is a smattering of info all over the site regarding Ford and Shelby gaskets. But things like oil pan gaskets allude to "that's not assembly line" without mentioning what IS assy line.
Starting at the top is the air cleaner to carb round gasket.
- 0.175 thick, black, 5 1/2 OD, 5 ID
Carb Base Gasket
- No data -- I haven't gotten that far
Valve cover gaskets
- Cork, black surfaces but natural edges, triangular tabs
Intake Gaskets
- References were made to white and that's all I have
Thermostat Gasket
- no data, possibly black
Timing Cover gasket to block
- Without today's extension on the right side; Probably black
Water pump gasket
- Without the extension on the right side above the water outlet
Fuel pump gasket
- White asbestos
Pan gasket
- I believe Ford used square gaskets that stuck out from the timing cover. Same black treatment as valve cover gaskets
Updates made as more data comes in.
Thanks!
The gasket between and air cleaner is not black. It has multiple layers and is tan son the sides .The top and bottom side have a red adhesive applied to create a pattern.
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These two I believe came from the same two or three suppliers and from the same material. Don't see any indication that they had asbestos in them and have not heard of anyone testing them in the past. Both have an ink print pattern in one of a couple of colors identifying the supplier. Both applications had a dry spray adhesive on one side of the gasket material. Have not see anything in the engine assembly instructions as to which side to face the adhesive side towards when putting them on an engine. Pictures are from prior postings
Intake Gaskets
- References were made to white and that's all I have
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-191018172703.jpeg)
Fuel pump gasket
- White asbestos
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/11/6-191018172428.jpeg)
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Thermostat Gasket
- no data, possibly black
Guess we need to look at a NOS engine gasket kit for those examples. Believe black represents a gasket from a aftermarket rebuild kit or over the counter at a non-Ford parts house
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Valve cover gaskets
- Cork, black surfaces but natural edges, triangular tabs
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-040822155135-177742168.jpeg)
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Pan gasket
- I believe Ford used square gaskets that stuck out from the timing cover. Same black treatment as valve cover gaskets
Don't believe, since in 67 the engine had the painted stamped steel oil pan along with the gasket and engine, they used the same gasket as the earlier cars with the aluminum cast oil pans. Believe the same gasket as any other 289 that year
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Head Gasket
- Visible small hole in the outer corners of the gasket
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-040822154744-17773190.jpeg)
That's a start
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Jeff -- My possibly original A-code engine looks like this in the front (green arrow):
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Jeff -- My possibly original A-code engine looks like this in the front (green arrow):
65 Right?
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Oops, forgot the data.
65 A-code from my sig line with a square-ish part on the front of the gasket.
I've worked on a lot of 289s and remember the square front. I just don't recall if that was assembly line or replacement. Or year!
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Does anyone have a pic of the head gasket with the squared off end and hole -- not installed so I can see the whole thing?
Any tips on who would have such a thing?
Also, what color is the thermostat gasket on the 67 Shelby GT350?
On other 289s it is painted with the engine so the color is immaterial. On the Shelby I'm assuming a new one had to be sourced during the intake swap.
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From a 66 GT unrestored car taken from underneath, I see a drooping square pan gasket near the fuel pump.
https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=16692.msg104399#msg104399
Caveat 1: unknown if engine is unmolested.
Caveat 2: Unknown if 66 and 67 used the same pan gasket.
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/8/6-290917212636-88551592.jpeg)
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Went through a bunch of pictures and with allot of the cars being ordered with PS and AC that year it makes it more difficult to see those areas compared to 65-66 so have to rely for many undercarriage shots.
A few findings. The unsupported gasket corners often broke off or where torn by the owners so that does not help.
Replacement oil pan gaskets in the 70-80's often had the square forward corners
Did find a dozen or more 67 small blocks with the square corners. Still need to try and find some period correct gasket set or sets and need to look at the one celebration picture of the small block I posted to the site to see what the drivers side gasket corner looks like if visible
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Finding original gasket sets has proven to be a challenge for me as well.
I'll post pics of a new gasket set I found that can be modified -- when it arrives in a few days.
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Found a couple of pictures with a little deeper look. An individual oil pan gasket set from the 60's and a engine gasket kit with the oil pan gasket. Don't know if there is another kit with the timing cover and thermostat housing gasket or if someone just used those from the kit and this is what is left. Guess I could look it up in an old MPC to check and compare.
Also have a picture of a box with 10 sets of oil pan gaskets from the 60's though the box is not open to show its details and contents
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-090822190413-178002263.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-090822190414-178011225.jpeg)
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Does anyone have a pic of the head gasket with the squared off end and hole -- not installed so I can see the whole thing?
Any tips on who would have such a thing?
Not a perfect square/sharp edge. Picture above off the engine have a half dozen or more on engines
Also, what color is the thermostat gasket on the 67 Shelby GT350?
On other 289s it is painted with the engine so the color is immaterial. On the Shelby I'm assuming a new one had to be sourced during the intake swap.
In my observations they were a dark tan color like many of the replacements of the time but different since they had to round bolt holes in the gasket no one hole and one slot
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Excellent data. Thanks for looking!
The pan and valve cover appear to have the black paint/sealant on the surface. The edges would be bare cork. It appears that the early cars could have black gaskets and later cars just cork.
The head gasket is interesting -- I see the hole!
Dark tan for thermostat gasket is also not quite what I thought. This would certainly be seen between the blue housing and an aluminum intake on the Shelby.
Thanks again as I can now move forward on my engine build.
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Take notice that the one oil pan gasket has a rounder corner that the other. On original engines its been my observation that "squarer" of the two was installed on the drivers side
As for the black I'm uncertain if the engine assembly line cork gasket were painted black originally and IMHO its very possible that service replacements were painted black to keep them from drying out from sitting on a shelf somewhere for years. Positive thing is that for 67 Shelby the oil pan gasket got engine paint
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To go along with the posy above about the two different long cork oil pan gaskets I found this mentioned as I was searching for info on the valve cover gasket discussion. The list of parts used for a 67 Shelby race build identified C2OZ-6710-B as for the RH and C2OZ-6711-B as the original gasket for the LH. Should provide you with additional gasket part number for your other questions/threads So I will repost there
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-100822172627-17827233.jpeg)
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On the SAAC Forum a comment was made that 67 GT350s would have regular cork gaskets.
But then it was noted that "Since all GT350/500s had aluminum valve covers , they would not have tabs."
Comments?
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Is this the color of the thermostat gasket?
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Is this the color of the thermostat gasket?
That is the color that I have seen when dissembling survivor S2MS intakes .
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That is the color that I have seen when dissembling survivor S2MS intakes .
+1 and they look to be shaped correctly also
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On the SAAC Forum a comment was made that 67 GT350s would have regular cork gaskets.
But then it was noted that "Since all GT350/500s had aluminum valve covers , they would not have tabs."
Comments?
Not sure who made that comment or what thread it was on the other site. But IMHO it is not unusual to hear and see all kinds of comments and peoples "logic" on forums or at shows. Recalled one story way back int he 80's were someone informed me that I didn't know anything since I didn't know that 65 Shelbys were delivered to the Shelby plant with 6 cylinder motors since they were "running short at the time" and SA workers were swapping out engines and transmissions there. ::)
As we've discovered our "logic" today does not always reflect the choices made by, or logic of the workers, people concerned about cost as well as inventory or supply issues and engineers of the time period. But of course we have the benefit of being able to look backwards and in some cases "Monday morning quarter backing"
Today we also have the benefit of unrestored and period pictures that can be shared widely unlike the past, to help research and sometimes used to debunk statements
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Here are some pictures from magazine articles printed in 66-67 showing 67 GT350's engines and the valve cover gasket tabs Believe picture #1 and #2 are the same car from different angles and possibly different articles. Top and bottom side tabs are difficult to find in magazine shots :(
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-110822200457-1783674.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-110822200453-17834472.jpeg)
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-110822200454-178351907.jpeg)
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Great pics to back up the black gasket.
Other than the carb base gasket this is all really well defined. I appreciate all of the help and I'm sure others do too. The list at the top contains the latest data.
I bought those thermostat gaskets so I may do the "donate to the site" and I'll give you one!
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While searching for a head gasket with front extension and hole, I came across a possible reason for this design.
The Felpro 9333-PT-1 head gasket is the recommended head gasket by FRPP for early cars (In the M-6003-A50 kit). In the instructions is the attached note (see pic).
It appears this would be a quick and easy way for an inspector (and you!) to see that the head gasket is installed correctly. It's also a gasket that replicates the early style in this regard and all I have to do is modify it a bit.
I'll order a pair and see if I can modify it to be a bit squarer and see if it drills nicely.
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I order a set of FelPro 9333 PT-1 head gaskets and I placed it on a 289 block along with a spare head (yeah, it's dirty).
Here is Jeff's pic:
(https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/17/6-040822154744-17773190.jpeg)
And attached is a pic of that gasket mocked up on an engine.
Just use a punch to make a hole and I think it works.
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I order a set of FelPro 9333 PT-1 head gaskets and I placed it on a 289 block along with a spare head (yeah, it's dirty).
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Just use a punch to make a hole and I think it works.
Did you happen to save the old gaskets to practice? Seen guys punch them out and often that will smash the inner layer, turn the edges of the hole inward pr if not supported well when punched will leave the bottom side (or top top if they didn't do them as they sit installed) deformed. Wonder if drilling would produce a better end result - the reason to ask if you still had the old ones
Just a thought
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Fel pro intake gaskets are of similar construction, it appears. Outside of the fire ring, that is.
I used a piece of soft aluminum under the gasket and used a 3/16 hammer punch and then a 7/32.
The aluminum was solidly clamped in a very solid vice.
pic 1: 3/16
pic 2: 7/32
I think 7/32?