ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: E35Pilot on October 05, 2014, 04:41:42 PM
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There appears to be a significant amount of disinformation, both inadvertent and misleading, when it comes to factory correct details or what is considered "stock". I do recognize there are slight difference between the factories' production lines, time of year/production, individual workmanship, etc...I'm mostly referring to the bigger, more basic issues that should be more universal. Unfortunately, as I spend more time reading the 2014 MCA Rule Book, I'm left with far more questions then I ever seem to actually find. It's too bad there isn't an all-inclusive owner's guide of "known" assembly details for mustang owners who embark on a path towards correct restorations. The magnitude of information would, in fact, be staggering...unfortunately, as those who really do "know" the details become silent, those who want to know will have fewer and fewer resource to draw upon. Thankfully, we have this forum for which I have found profoundly informative, along with the quality of advice provided by the experts who graciously surf/respond to these forums.
Anyway, I'm looking for "god's truth" on what decals were used and specific locations for a 1968 S-Code built in early Dec 67 (SJ, CA). Is there a manual, guide, ref, etc. that provides these details? Again, I recognize there can be/is some variations. Specifically, I'd love to start with knowing where and what decal versions are used for the GT air cleaner...I see lots of different decal configurations, even amongst what seems to be the same engines and years. The Scott Drake/Jim Osborn kits even seem to have different decals then I've noticed in some of the original factory photos provided by Jeff S. in the SJ Forum.
I'm also looking to find decals and location details for the emission system and air conditioning.
Is there a collection (or gallery) anywhere on line that shows Concurs Gold Winners? Having access to detailed pictures of past winers would also be helpful...they must exist somewhere, right?
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Anyway, I'm looking .......... what decals were used and specific locations for a 1968 S-Code built in early Dec 67 (SJ, CA). Is there a manual, guide, ref, etc. that provides these details?
No there is not a manual and if there was one printed it would likely be wrong in one or more areas. Though the fact that there is not a published guide does not mean that you can not find the answers just means there is not always an easy button.
Again, I recognize there can be/is some variations. ........... The Scott Drake/Jim Osborn kits...........
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First of all DO NOT BUY A KIT!
Buy individual decals that fit your need specifically if they are available
I'm also looking to find decals and location details for the emission system and air conditioning.
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No AC decals I can think of and Emission decals? Unless your referring to the timing decal can think of one of those either
Is there a collection (or gallery) anywhere on line that shows Concurs Gold Winners? Having access to detailed pictures of past winers would also be helpful...they must exist somewhere, right?
No that does not exist and if they did the pictures (just like in the magazines and books) would likely include details that would not be correct or things that were allowed and no longer are (new information since then) Such a site would likely lead owners to believe that if they just copied this or that car their car would also be a Gold winner. Doesn't often work out that way. Consider that every restoration is someone interpretation of what they saw, were told or found wither on the car or somewhere else. Then even if the detail was correct what you see is what they were able to reproduce - not always exactly what it was. In some cases/examples an exact reproduction is not necessary in others it is very important.
I'm guessing that you have already invested in a copy of the 68 Engine Assembly manual. Not that it is perfect or correct in all details it can help in many areas even related to decals.
I'll go through my pictures and see what I've got
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First step - Identifying what decals are needed and locations
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051014162426.jpeg)
Red Arrow - Battery inspection
Purple Arrow - Engine CU Decal
Green Arrow - AUTOLITE Filter Service Decal with Part Number for Filter
Yellow Arrow - Engine Timing Decal
Blue Arrow - Serve/Maintenance Decal
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The engine compartment is the natural place to start, but are you also looking for trunk decal details?
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First step - Identifying what decals are needed and locations
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/2/6-051014162426.jpeg)
Red Arrow - Battery inspection
Purple Arrow - Engine CU Decal
Green Arrow - AUTOLITE Filter Service Decal with Part Number for Filter
Yellow Arrow - Engine Timing Decal
Blue Arrow - Serve/Maintenance Decal
This is a great picture/visual. I can work with this. I'm sure others will find it useful as well.
I see a lot of pics with the "FRONT" decal (white with black lettering) on the air cleaner as well...I assumed this was for a different application, maybe for an air cleaner without the snorkel? Anyway, you've confirmed what I suspected...that the "FRONT" decal was not applicable for this application ('68 390GT with emissions). Thanks.
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The engine compartment is the natural place to start, but are you also looking for trunk decal details?
You're right, the engine compartment has my attention right now. However, the trunk is in the near future. One step at a time, or at least as fast as my paycheck can support.
Any details or nuggets of wisdom for the trunk would be appreciated. Note: the car does not have the small spare wheel option.
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Yes the FRONT was not used in 68 (nor most of the years) but it comes in the kit and owners will normally slap every last one on somewhere assuming that someone else knows more than they do. :(
Air cleaner top (CU decal) would be the two color decal (no white checkerboard) one.
The commercially available battery inspection decal is vinyl not paper like original, has the wrong color printing and its not available filled out correctly from the dealers.
Since all had Thermactor there is no difference between the valve cover/timing decal and cars built elsewhere. Do not know for sure if there is one version or multiples
For the Air cleaner, valve cover and service decals I would search out ESC products over Osborn ones. These can be purchased directly or many parts houses carry them - they will be the more expensive ones ;) or marked "concours"
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Yes the FRONT was not used in 68 (nor most of the years) but it comes in the kit and owners will normally slap every last one on somewhere assuming that someone else knows more than they do. :(
Air cleaner top (CU decal) would be the two color decal (no white checkerboard) one. The commercial battery inspection decal is vinyl not paper like original and its not available filled out correctly from the dealers.
Since all had Thermactor there is no difference between the valve cover/timing decal and cars built elsewhere. Do not know for sure if there is one version or multiples
For the Air cleaner, valve cover and service decals I would search out ESC products over Osborn ones. These can be purchased directly or many parts houses carry them - they will be the more expensive ones ;) or marked "concours"
Thanks Jeff, the additional details are very helpful!
Lee
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I'm guessing that you have already invested in a copy of the 68 Engine Assembly manual. Not that it is perfect or correct in all details it can help in many areas even related to decals.
Has someone published a copy of the '68 engine manual? Last time I spoke to Jim Osborn's son a few years ago, they had not been able to find an original to reproduce. I haven't seen any elsewhere, either. I'm offering a finder's fee of one cold beer (FOB central MN) for information leading to one (original or repro)!
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Yes the FRONT was not used in 68 (nor most of the years) but it comes in the kit and owners will normally slap every last one on somewhere assuming that someone else knows more than they do. :(
Air cleaner top (CU decal) would be the two color decal (no white checkerboard) one.
The commercially available battery inspection decal is vinyl not paper like original, has the wrong color printing and its not available filled out correctly from the dealers.
Since all had Thermactor there is no difference between the valve cover/timing decal and cars built elsewhere. Do not know for sure if there is one version or multiples
For the Air cleaner, valve cover and service decals I would search out ESC products over Osborn ones. These can be purchased directly or many parts houses carry them - they will be the more expensive ones ;) or marked "concours"
Since all "what" had thermactor.....There were no GT 390's with thermactor in Canada...Boss cars and CJ's showed up with it in 69
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Since all "what" had thermactor.....There were no GT 390's with thermactor in Canada...Boss cars and CJ's showed up with it in 69
Cobra Jets were built in the fall of 67 and became available to the general public in spring of 68. So "all" would be CJ's and 390 equipped Mustangs delivered in the US to the general public I believe would be the best wording. Same idea behind the manual transmission equipped other engines :)
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fair enough but I didn't see in the original post where he said it was a domestic (US) car...We didn't get thermactor on any of the 390's.Also the CJ's built in the fall of 67 I believe were actually built January of 68 (the 135 cars)and they were not available to the public..My 68 SJ built fastback was built the 3rd week of dec and it is 117XXX.Thermactor on any year mustang with any engine in Canada was reserved for the CJ's and Boss cars.....Cory (BC Canada)
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fair enough but I didn't see in the original post where he said it was a domestic (US) car...We didn't get thermactor on any of the 390's.Also the CJ's built in the fall of 67 I believe were actually built January of 68 (the 135 cars)and they were not available to the public..My 68 SJ built fastback was built the 3rd week of dec and it is 117XXX.Thermactor on any year mustang with any engine in Canada was reserved for the CJ's and Boss cars.....Cory (BC Canada)
Cory, if you look at the title ,the "Re:San Jose " would be the best indicator that it was most likely a US car given that the majority of production was for US consumption. On this predominantly US forum you would typically assume by default that it would be a US car vs, a export to Canada ,UK etc. unless specifically stated otherwise. This is reinforced by the effort of the OP to indicate the qualifications for the decals and placement by giving the plant of origin as well as other important details Jeff S. has so persistently reminded everyone to give time and time again. You would think that if it was that important of a detail like it was a export car (if it in fact was) it would have been indicated in the carefully worded heading. Just some thoughts on a logical reason for the assumption IMO.
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Hi Cory just for the sake of correct information populating this thread all of the 135 cars were in fact built in Dec 1967. They share the common date of 20M on the door tags (scheduled build date) but were actually produced as follows
Sunday 12/22/1967: 1 built
Thursday 12/26/1967: 15 built
Friday 12/27/1967: 31 built
Saturday 12/28/1967: 3 built
These cars were "spoken" for by known race teams and as dealer sponsored race cars well ahead of any public offering however several were in fact sold to the general public if you consider parts managers and friends of the dealerships and racers. Only 2 of these cars were factory sponsored for the Winternationals. Several of these cars were never raced and were street driven.
Did not realize your cars was a "117" I have one as well and it appears to have been built the same couple of days as the other 4 Winternational "117" San Jose plant cars.
Kerry
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Air cleaner top (CU decal) would be the two color decal (no white checkerboard) one.
Is this the correct design? The part number matches the 1968 chassis assembly manual.
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Picture showing decal on an NOS air cleaner base.