Topic: 428 CJ motor rebuild

[Kiwi428]

Guys,
I'm looking for a little advice. I'm about to strip down the original motor and get it rebuilt. Probably, new pistons, rings, bearings, cam bearings, timing chain etc. My question is, I want to put a different cam in to give it a little more power than stock, but nothing to radical. I have read a few chats and still not convinced on what is the better one to use. I want to keep the motor stock in appearance outside but tweak it slightly inside. Unfortunately some one removed all my smog gear so I plan to buy this later as I can afford it. Can anyone also tell me what Center Force clutch to buy, again the different reference people have made to the clutch issues have made it hard to make a clear decision?

Thanks for any advice
John

[jmlay]

This is a great forum for FE performance questions.:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/

Mike

[Brian Conway]

     Keep it simple and stay with the stock set up.  Brian

[motor head 428]

 I have been building engines for about 30 years.  Pick a well known camshaft manufacture tell them what you are building and how you want it to perform and they will guide you. I suggest that you purchase the matching componets such as lifter, valve springs from the same company. Use a machine shop to set up the valve springs to the recommended specification that come with the camshaft. The camshafts of today are going to out perform your original (1960's or 1970's) camshaft do to the advancements in camshaft profiles. Read and follow the camshaft break in procedure.

[zray]

     Keep it simple and stay with the stock set up.  Brian

since this still is a Concours forum, two thoughts come to mind.

1) whenever you modify, your problems multiply.

2) There will be unintended consequences stemming from any modification from stock.


Z.

[suskeenwiske]

Have you considered slightly changing the gear ratio? If you choose one that was available from Ford at that time and get the matching ID Tag, you can leave the Engine as is and still boost your performance. You'll have to have a new Warranty Tag made as well to reflect the change.

Two things to consider, if you have an Automatic Transmission, should a cam change alter the Engine Vacuum significantly enough the Transmission may not shift correctly and if you have Power brakes it may suffer from a lower Vacuum as well. The other is, will your current Braking System be up to the task of stopping your car with an increase in Engine Power?

If you do opt for a cam change, work very closely with the Machine Shop and make sure that they can cope with changes to the Cams Lift and Duration, how it affects Piston Clearance, how does it change the engine breathing and will all of this require changing the Intake Manifold, Carburetor and Exhaust? If you change the Engines ability to breath, you may also need to change its ability to draw air through the Carburetor and its ability to get rid of it through the Exhaust. If these do not match you may find that the new cam actually lowers your Engines Performance.

I'm with Brian, leave it stock. You may find that if the Machine Shop can properly Balance and Blueprint the Engine, you'll pick up enough power from doing just that alone. It's still stock, will increase Engine Life and you'll have your performance increase as well. Don't forget about you Brakes; stopping the car is all important!

Hope this helps.

Ray

[Kiwi428]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Interesting comments and there obviously a lot to be said about keeping it stock.I'll continue to research the issue but after hearing about some of the issues raised, I think I know where I might be heading. I have engine rebuilder in mind who has been doing this for about 30yrs, so will run these points past him. Just a point asked, the car is 4spd R code with 3.55 rearend

Did anyone have an idea on the clutch. I'm keen to put a Center force in but would like a P/N if anyone has had experience with these?

The forum is great and hopefully as I gain experience I will be able to share it as well.

Cheers John

[J_Speegle]

Did anyone have an idea on the clutch. I'm keen to put a Center force in but would like a P/N if anyone has had experience with these?

Haven't used a Center force - just ordered a McLeod clutch kit to replace the one I removed - been in there for 25 years of so. Using the three finger style have a number of friends that prefer the diaphragm style but the finger style has served me with no issues for years

Light duty usage expected - not a race car though I'm sure I will stretch its "legs" fairly often

Just what has worked for me

[JIMeast]

I would second the suggestion to get to know some of the guys on the network54 FE forum.  You could also try the fepower.net forum.  Many of the guys on both sites are engine builders, and many of the ones who are not have built so many they still qualify as experts.   

[JIMeast]

Followup: I recently checked out Barry Robotnick's fefordtech.com site and he recently built a CJ motor for a customer that is very close to stock (including the stock intake and exhaust manifolds, CJ heads, as well as the distributor) that hit 450hp.  He might have even used the stock or close to stock cam grind.  Barry owns Survival Motorsports and has a premium reputation in the FE community.  Personally, I really like this build.  I might do something very similar, but would ceramic coat the inside and outside of the exhaust manifolds.

http://fefordtech.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ntc71hn8n2p1q3i07k5jta25a6&topic=107.0

[427Fastback]

I am a long time member of the FE forum and I can tell you no one on the forum will tell you to leave it stock especially the camshaft..Your problems do not multiply when you modify...
Barry has lots of info and lots of video's to watch.I have built lots of FE's (including a 428scj)for collector cars and I have always improved them and still kept the stock looks and manners.Your camshaft was designed for fuel we cannot get anymore.

Survival Motorsports,B2 Motorsports,Blair Patrick all know FE's very well..
There is the FE forum and Jay Browns FE forum..Join and ask questions.Read and research..

I also doubt anyone of them will tell you to use a centreforce...Most of us all use Mcleod

For the record I own 4 FE's including a 428CJ.My 68 Fastback has been powered by a 427 since 1988..

JMO.....Cory

[67gtasanjose]

I am one for suggesting STOCK only most of the time, but if any combination that has been through the tortuous task of "working out the bugs" has been tried and proven, and then available to others, I am all for those technology updates too! Far too many people try doing things their OWN WAY of improving, just ending up with bigger problems later. (usually those tied to a "budget") Deep pockets afford somebody many things that the majority cannot afford, then those "secrets learned" get locked down so as not to give them out for free.
A "for example"...I also have a 2005 GT Mustang and ROUSH sells pretuned super-charger kits for them. If I were to pony up the $5K, I could be Roushcharged and all the engineering work is then PAID for in buying the kit. Basically, by the time I had the hard parts switched out, Fed-Ex will be bringing my computer back to simply "plug-n-play". A real no-brainer to get 150+ more in HP, if that were what I wanted.

[427Fastback]

I by no means suggest getting a catalog and blindly buying parts that don't work well together...There are more parts and knowledge for these engines now then 25 years ago..There are some really nice camshafts for a 428CJ now that improve things all across the board with out the need for fancy valve train..

CJ's are good engines I honestly wouldn't stray to far off stock on one for a collector car that's a driver..

Cory