ConcoursMustang Forums
1st Generation 1964 1/2 - 1973 - Questions & general discussions that apply to a specific year => 1968 Mustang => Topic started by: bullitt68 on October 25, 2019, 02:04:03 PM
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Not sure how hard it would be to find original correct leaf springs to restore. I have looked on line to see what leaf spring options there are and so far I have found anything I like or feel comes close to original. Not sure what other guys are doing and putting on their cars. I did stumble upon a set of NOS springs locally. Not sure if they are legitimate or not. So far I only have the one photo, will try to get more. The guys said to make him an offer. He is a used Mustang parts guy. What would be a reasonable or going price for a set of NOS leaf Springs. He says that have never been used.
Does anyone have any experience with the Scott Drake Leaf Springs.
Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Are they $118.95 per spring or per set ?
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Are they $118.95 per spring or per set ?
Eaton also make a correct 4 leaf spring as the ones on the Scott Drake Website shows a 5 leaf design. The Eaton spring is $184.50 Each. I am hoping to get better photos and more info on each so I can determine which spring would be the closest to stock appearing. I have no idea what the NOS springs are worth, but I suspect like with anything NOS they might want a lot of money for them. Clearly much more than aftermarket replacements. Also not sure if trying to find an old set of originals would make sense. What is everyone else doing for leaf springs on this site?
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.................. What is everyone else doing for leaf springs on this site?
Many - if their originals are rust pitted or just worn out - choose to purchase reproduction and swap or find a decent original short leaf with all the original markings. Reproductions may need to be disassembled and finished correctly and with the original style of clamps depending on your application - year and plant
Then home that the car will sit correctly one installed
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Many - if their originals are rust pitted or just worn out - choose to purchase reproduction and swap or find a decent original short leaf with all the original markings. Reproductions may need to be disassembled and finished correctly and with the original style of clamps depending on your application - year and plant
Then home that the car will sit correctly one installed
Well I did find that NOS set that I posted. If I can't put a deal together on those I know that Scott Drake and Eaton both claim that their Springs are the most original looking. Regardless I would media blast them and re finish them correctly and put on correct hardware and hopefully find leafs with the part numbers stamped in them. If not I assume that the NOS stencil would be an acceptable next best option.
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Well I did find that NOS set that I posted. If I can't put a deal together on those I know that Scott Drake and Eaton both claim that their Springs are the most original looking. Regardless I would media blast them and re finish them correctly and put on correct hardware and hopefully find leafs with the part numbers stamped in them. If not I assume that the NOS stencil would be an acceptable next best option.
Have you check or confirmed that the -M was the original application for your specific car and options? Often service replacements are stamped differently than originals so you will need to check that . Doubt they are the same but there is a slight IMHO possibility that they would be the same
Of course they will also need to be restored since they were painted to keep them (well that was the plan) from rusting while being stored waiting to be sold . Of course they would not have been stenciled on them ;)
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Have you check or confirmed that the -M was the original application for your specific car and options? Often service replacements are stamped differently than originals so you will need to check that . Doubt they are the same but there is a slight IMHO possibility that they would be the same
Of course they will also need to be restored since they were painted to keep them (well that was the plan) from rusting while being stored waiting to be sold . Of course they would not have been stenciled on them ;)
Just confirming as I was under the impression that all leaf springs back in the day were treated and not painted. All other leaf springs I have restored were installed unpainted based on my research. Also confirming that NOS would have been stencilled like other NOS sheet metal etc. Appears that Scott Drake is selling their version of the NOS springs.
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Factory original leaf springs were not painted. They were identified by small stamped letters/numbers plus with painted colored stripes for easy reference on the assembly line, matching to the build sheet.
It sounds like NOS springs were painted so that they did not rust sitting around on a shelf. I don't know if they were typically stenciled or not.
I would not consider what Scott Drake is selling as NOS, I would consider them reproductions. There are a few suppliers out there. I ended up using Eaton myself, and I had Eaton break them down and shot peen them for me to remove the paint. If you look at other threads you will probably determine that none are excellent from the perspective of look. The Eaton springs are a bit too squared off at the ends. With some work you can make them look more like factory springs. Also read the threads on the spring clamps and determine how you want to proceed there.
From what I've seen over the years, NOS springs are pretty difficult to come by, particularly compared to other items.
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Thanks John. That is great news about Eaton as I didn't know that was an option, but one option I would go for, for sure. I have used Eaton on most of my other builds and they were actually a supplier to some manufactures back in the day. Not sure about Ford as I am new to the Mustang world. The springs on my car did not have the correct clamps either, but my understanding is that you can order correct clamps & discs etc. I didn't consider looking for used originals as I figure the chances of find good set worth restoring wouldn't be an option.
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Thanks John. That is great news about Eaton as I didn't know that was an option, but one option I would go for, for sure. I have used Eaton on most of my other builds and they were actually a supplier to some manufactures back in the day. Not sure about Ford as I am new to the Mustang world. The springs on my car did not have the correct clamps either, but my understanding is that you can order correct clamps & discs etc. I didn't consider looking for used originals as I figure the chances of find good set worth restoring wouldn't be an option.
There was a Eaton that supplied Ford springs . Their "E" makers mark is stamped in many leaf springs on Mustangs. It was/is a huge multi National conglomerate. It is not the same Eaton that you bought your springs from which is minuscule by comparison . That Eaton you bought your springs from has had a bad habit in the past of not correcting people who make that incorrect association. Some years ago I questioned one of the more senior employees while talking about a 69 Shelby spring . I had heard from many that they had lead them to believe that they supplied Ford. I had done my research in Wards Automotive Yearbook. The information in that and other publications established the difference between the two companies. I was annoyed when it took several direct questions to get the person on the phone to admit the difference. I think that they let their employees believe it too. They got engineering drawings from Ford but that is about the extent of the association. I am sure the name association has helped their business. FYI they make a good product and do not need the subterfuge IMO.
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Have you check or confirmed that the -M was the original application for your specific car and options? Often service replacements are stamped differently than originals so you will need to check that . Doubt they are the same but there is a slight IMHO possibility that they would be the same
Of course they will also need to be restored since they were painted to keep them (well that was the plan) from rusting while being stored waiting to be sold . Of course they would not have been stenciled on them ;)
Hi Jeff I just spoke with the owner of the NOS springs and I have not confirmed what the "M" designation is for. I assumed that the part number on the spring is correct, but I have also never seen a set of NOS Mustang Leaf Springs. I was hoping that someone here might have that info and help point me in the right direction. I asked him how much he wanted for them and he said to make him an offer. Since the Scott Drake units are $200.00 each I am sure he would want at least double for them. He said he has had them for over 25 years and they are still in the box etc. I don't think I would be willing to pay $1000.00 for them as I could just buy some as pointed out by others and re finish and them and put the right clamps on them etc. Obviously not a common item at all.
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I am not sure what these NOS springs look like but the ones I have see had squared off ends and were not as good as the reproductions. I would be careful you know what you are buying before you spend big money and are disappointed.
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I am not sure what these NOS springs look like but the ones I have see had squared off ends and were not as good as the reproductions. I would be careful you know what you are buying before you spend big money and are disappointed.
Agreed and leaning towards the latter! 50 year old metal and won't be cheap. Only photo I have I posted above. Seller is not super motivated.
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Not sure how hard it would be to find original correct leaf springs to restore. I have looked on line to see what leaf spring options there are and so far I have found anything I like or feel comes close to original. Not sure what other guys are doing and putting on their cars. I did stumble upon a set of NOS springs locally. Not sure if they are legitimate or not. So far I only have the one photo, will try to get more. The guys said to make him an offer. He is a used Mustang parts guy. What would be a reasonable or going price for a set of NOS leaf Springs. He says that have never been used.
Does anyone have any experience with the Scott Drake Leaf Springs.
Any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
All of the NOS service replacement springs I have ever had were stenciled with a part number similar to the picture.They are typically a one size fits all type item. I would be surprised if the number stamped into the metal of the bottom leaf of the NOS set is the same as the one original to your car. You may want to confirm before considering making a offer for purchase. If they are not the same like I suspect then the value to you or for that matter anyone else considering the one size fits various applications status would be diminished over a NOS assemblyline set. In that case one of the close reproduction sets with a transplanted bottom leaf would make the most sense from a historical stand point IMO.
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All of the NOS service replacement springs I have ever had were stenciled with a part number similar to the picture.They are typically a one size fits all type item. I would be surprised if the number stamped into the metal of the bottom leaf of the NOS set is the same as the one original to your car. You may want to confirm before considering making a offer for purchase. If they are not the same like I suspect then the value to you or for that matter anyone else considering the one size fits various applications status would be diminished over a NOS assemblyline set. In that case one of the close reproduction sets with a transplanted bottom leaf would make the most sense from a historical stand point IMO.
Thanks Bob I am with you 100%. Now where can I get the right bottom leaf?
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Thanks Bob I am with you 100%. Now where can I get the right bottom leaf?
First determine which one (suffix of engineering number ) is correct for your particular application and go from there . Unless it is a competition suspension car (AR suffix ) it is not a insurmountable task.
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All of the NOS service replacement springs I have ever had were stenciled with a part number similar to the picture.They are typically a one size fits all type item. I would be surprised if the number stamped into the metal of the bottom leaf of the NOS set is the same as the one original to your car. You may want to confirm before considering making a offer for purchase. If they are not the same like I suspect then the value to you or for that matter anyone else considering the one size fits various applications status would be diminished over a NOS assemblyline set. In that case one of the close reproduction sets with a transplanted bottom leaf would make the most sense from a historical stand point IMO.
Hio Bob these are the leaf springs that Scott Drake sells. I am wondering how close they are to original. Assuming to be correct the paint would need to be removed etc. Just curious about the rest of the details. I have been trying to get some photos of the Eaton spring for comparison. So far no luck. Also trying to confirm ride height etc.
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Not Bob ::) but the clamps look correct for the time period and plant but the short leaf is shaped differently from what was originally supplied
Yes look like they were completely painted once all assembled on these reproductions
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Not Bob ::) but the clamps look correct for the time period and plant but the short leaf is shaped differently from what was originally supplied
Yes look like they were completely painted once all assembled on these reproductions
Thanks Jeff. If they look like the best op[tion I will order a set and disassemble and refinish in bare steel, treated of course and then try to source as stamped lower leaf. Just trying to get as close as I can as the guy with the NOS springs won't give me a price and just wants me to make an offer, but I don't see any point in paying crazy money for NOS springs. Some guys are looking to get crazy money for rare NOS parts. Clearly these are rare and his business is selling Mustang parts.
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Thanks Jeff. If they look like the best op[tion I will order a set and disassemble and refinish in bare steel, treated of course and then try to source as stamped lower leaf. Just trying to get as close as I can as the guy with the NOS springs won't give me a price and just wants me to make an offer, but I don't see any point in paying crazy money for NOS springs. Some guys are looking to get crazy money for rare NOS parts. Clearly these are rare and his business is selling Mustang parts.
I concur with Jeff . I also agree that it would not make sense to buying the NOS set unless the bottom leaf matches exactly your application. I don't begrudge the seller trying to get the most out of it ether. Of course if it was the last completely correct part you needed on a perfect restoration it would command a premium.
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I concur with Jeff . I also agree that it would not make sense to buying the NOS set unless the bottom leaf matches exactly your application. I don't begrudge the seller trying to get the most out of it ether. Of course if it was the last completely correct part you needed on a perfect restoration it would command a premium.
Agreed Bob. So far my understanding is that the only stamp on the NOS set is the paint stamp in yellow on the top of the spring and no actual steel stamp marking on the bottom leaf. I am not sure if the Eaton or the Scott Drake leafs are the most accurate as I have only received photos from Scott Drake. However if they look good and are my best option I will go that route and hope to find a bottom spring with a good stamp at some point. Hopefully once stripped and treated they at the very least will look correct. I have seen some guys running the paint stamp on the top of the spring like Scott Drake offers. Not sure if I would go that route or not, as it would mean that the part is a reproduction of an NOS part and not original. Perhaps it is a question of personal taste. I have seen the same thing done with sheet metal parts etc. My lower tail pan is an NOS replacement part, but I plan to paint red oxide primer over it so it would look fresh like the rust of the car.l Not even sure of the stencils are available or if you would have to make up your own. Do people even go to that level. I am not sure as I have not seen photos of high end cars restored to that level mainly just original examples to date. Perhaps if I saw some restored examples for comparison I would use that as a reference.
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/.....My lower tail pan is an NOS replacement part, but I plan to paint red oxide primer over it so it would look fresh like the rust of the car.l Not even sure of the stencils are available or if you would have to make up your own. Do people even go to that level.
For a restoration you would not want to have a stenciled part number on a panel since that would not have been there originally on a part installed at the car plant but would suggest to anyone viewing the car that the panel had been replaced later
I am not sure as I have not seen photos of high end cars restored to that level mainly just original examples to date. Perhaps if I saw some restored examples for comparison I would use that as a reference.
The challenge with showing a restored car or section of a car is that one (given our focus here) would need to point out the short comings when found and owners would not take that kindly. One of the issues magazines had over the decades which lead to many an owner to simply copy ever detail - correct or not. Also standards, expectations and knowledge has progressed over time.
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If that is the case then the NOS springs are just not going to be correct looking without at least as much effort as it would take to make the Eaton Detroit springs look the part. As has been mentioned before the assembly line springs had a part number roll stamped in the short leaf and they also had paint stripes for quick identification on the line.
Where are the originals that came off your car? They should have traces of the paint stripe and also the original roll stamping on the short leaf. If you have those you can at least know what you have to do.
Agreed Bob. So far my understanding is that the only stamp on the NOS set is the paint stamp in yellow on the top of the spring and no actual steel stamp marking on the bottom leaf. I am not sure if the Eaton or the Scott Drake leafs are the most accurate as I have only received photos from Scott Drake. However if they look good and are my best option I will go that route and hope to find a bottom spring with a good stamp at some point. Hopefully once stripped and treated they at the very least will look correct. I have seen some guys running the paint stamp on the top of the spring like Scott Drake offers. Not sure if I would go that route or not, as it would mean that the part is a reproduction of an NOS part and not original. Perhaps it is a question of personal taste. I have seen the same thing done with sheet metal parts etc. My lower tail pan is an NOS replacement part, but I plan to paint red oxide primer over it so it would look fresh like the rust of the car.l Not even sure of the stencils are available or if you would have to make up your own. Do people even go to that level. I am not sure as I have not seen photos of high end cars restored to that level mainly just original examples to date. Perhaps if I saw some restored examples for comparison I would use that as a reference.
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If that is the case then the NOS springs are just not going to be correct looking without at least as much effort as it would take to make the Eaton Detroit springs look the part. As has been mentioned before the assembly line springs had a part number roll stamped in the short leaf and they also had paint stripes for quick identification on the line.
Where are the originals that came off your car? They should have traces of the paint stripe and also the original roll stamping on the short leaf. If you have those you can at least know what you have to do.
Unfortunately the original leaf springs are long gone and the leafs on my car had major flat spots, no stampings, wrongs straps etc, I am looking to find more suitable replacements.
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Agreed Bob. So far my understanding is that the only stamp on the NOS set is the paint stamp in yellow on the top of the spring and no actual steel stamp marking on the bottom leaf. I am not sure if the Eaton or the Scott Drake leafs are the most accurate as I have only received photos from Scott Drake. However if they look good and are my best option I will go that route and hope to find a bottom spring with a good stamp at some point. Hopefully once stripped and treated they at the very least will look correct. I have seen some guys running the paint stamp on the top of the spring like Scott Drake offers. Not sure if I would go that route or not, as it would mean that the part is a reproduction of an NOS part and not original. Perhaps it is a question of personal taste. I have seen the same thing done with sheet metal parts etc. My lower tail pan is an NOS replacement part, but I plan to paint red oxide primer over it so it would look fresh like the rust of the car.l Not even sure of the stencils are available or if you would have to make up your own. Do people even go to that level. I am not sure as I have not seen photos of high end cars restored to that level mainly just original examples to date. Perhaps if I saw some restored examples for comparison I would use that as a reference.
The service replacement spring sets were typically metal stamped with a engineering number on the bottom leaf besides the stencil. The NOS ones you are looking at must be some very late service replacement springs given the missing metal stamping. FYI the stencil in this instance and context would not typically be on a original assemblyline car part. It is a sign in a negative way of a replacement part IMO. Springs like that are on par with a repro . I would be concerned what other missing details that set of springs might have . They would not be worth any kind of a premium IMO. Hopefully you will feel better about opting to not bid on the NOS replacement set.
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As mentioned earlier service replacements/later NOS will often be stamped differently than factory - Example below
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019161931.jpeg)
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As mentioned earlier service replacements/later NOS will often be stamped differently than factory - Example below
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019161931.jpeg)
Thanks Jeff just confirming those are factory replacement and not factory installed original stamoing
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Thanks Jeff just confirming those are factory replacement and not factory installed original stamping
Yes
Here are some examples of stampings from assembly line rear springs. Couple of them were lose springs the lower left is one identified as coming from a 68 San Jose Mustang. One supplier (the upper tight identified as coming from a 68 NJ car) stamped them cross wise to the length of the leaf)
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019180452.jpeg)
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Yes
Here are some examples of stampings from assembly line rear springs. Couple of them were lose springs the lower left is one identified as coming from a 68 San Jose Mustang. One supplier (the upper tight identified as coming from a 68 NJ car) stamped them cross wise to the length of the leaf)
Great stamps. Thanks Jeff. Now I know what I am looking for. The hunt continues
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This should be one of the possible springs you'll be looking for - C7ZA-5556-AS
Often what was installed but it depends on what options your car came with in addition to being a very late GT 390 4 speed fastback. Things like AC and PS often are part of the differences. Picture is also from a San Jose built (and supplier) example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019183819.jpeg)
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What are the -Y springs from? I think I have a pair
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This should be one of the possible springs you'll be looking for - C7ZA-5556-AS
Often what was installed but it depends on what options your car came with in addition to being a very late GT 390 4 speed fastback. Things like AC and PS often are part of the differences. Picture is also from a San Jose built (and supplier) example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019183819.jpeg)
Great thanks Jeff. I wonder what the chances are I would find a correct stamped bottom leaf. I am almost tempted to just use the springs I have that came out of my car. They are not original or NOS and I have no idea who made them. The one thing I do know is that the ride height is perfect. I was thinking of just media blasting them and metal treating them and using the correct after market straps etc. In the mean time if I can find a correct lower spring or full leaf spring set I could us those. Unfortunately I can't reach the guy who was selling the NOS set to confirm if the springs do have a stamp on the bottom leaf. For me the most important factors are no paint on the leafs and correct straps. Hopefully this is an acceptable practice. So far it has not been an easy task, but I would like to get some springs in place so I can make my car a roller. I could use temporally springs of course, but ideally I would prefer to just do it once if possible.
Thanks Jeff
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What are the -Y springs from? I think I have a pair
As in a pair you would with?
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This should be one of the possible springs you'll be looking for - C7ZA-5556-AS
Often what was installed but it depends on what options your car came with in addition to being a very late GT 390 4 speed fastback. Things like AC and PS often are part of the differences. Picture is also from a San Jose built (and supplier) example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019183819.jpeg)
How would the date on this spring be read?
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All of the NOS service replacement springs I have ever had were stenciled with a part number similar to the picture.They are typically a one size fits all type item. I would be surprised if the number stamped into the metal of the bottom leaf of the NOS set is the same as the one original to your car. You may want to confirm before considering making a offer for purchase. If they are not the same like I suspect then the value to you or for that matter anyone else considering the one size fits various applications status would be diminished over a NOS assemblyline set. In that case one of the close reproduction sets with a transplanted bottom leaf would make the most sense from a historical stand point IMO.
Hi Bob turns out the guy wants $250.00 per NOS spring. I am waiting for confirmation that it has the stamping on the small leaf and I am interested in buying them now. How do the clamps/straps look you in the photos. I will try to get better photos
I also found these for sale. Let me know what you think. These are 350.00 for the set
Thanks
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Hi Bob turns out the guy wants $250.00 per NOS spring. I am waiting for confirmation that it has the stamping on the small leaf and I am interested in buying them now. How do the clamps/straps look you in the photos. I will try to get better photos
I also found these for sale. Let me know what you think. They are the same price as the NOS ones
Thanks
I haven't researched your application but based on Jeffs #29 reply it looks like those would be what you want. The spring clamps are ones of the original type styles referred to as square hole for the hole that the tab folds over on . There is also a round hole style. I am not sure which style would be typical for 68 SJ . If they were supposed to be the round hole style exact repros are available. I would want to know if they are all original or if the bottom plate has been transferred. If all original you run the risk of a nice restored set that sags when installed. A nice repro set with a bottom plate replaced would be the next best thing to a NOS set with the correct bottom plate stamping IMO. Just some of my thoughts on the subject.
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NOS leaf spring update. Here is a photo of the stamping on the bottom leaf on the NOS springs in Question. I am going to lok at them tomorrow. He has only sent me the 2 photos of them I have posted so I am not really sure how they look overall, what shape they are in etc. Just curious if there is anything I need to know about the stamp or if there are any flags etc.
Thanks
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NOS leaf spring update. Here is a photo of the stamping on the bottom leaf on the NOS springs in Question. I am going to lok at them tomorrow. He has only sent me the 2 photos of them I have posted so I am not really sure how they look overall, what shape they are in etc. Just curious if there is anything I need to know about the stamp or if there are any flags etc.
Have seen this same stamping and shape of the short leaf on other early service replacement/NOS rear springs installed on a couple of 68s (different plants)
- First off the shape of the short leaf is shaped differently (flat ends) that what we typically find on 68 San Jose springs
- Stamping is reverses from assembly line springs
Do have one example with short leaf shaped like this on a J code San Jose 68 but can't be sure its original and the picture does not show the stamping
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Have seen this same stamping and shape of the short leaf on other early service replacement/NOS rear springs installed on a couple of 68s (different plants)
- First off the shape of the short leaf is shaped differently (flat ends) that what we typically find on 68 San Jose springs
- Stamping is reverses from assembly line springs
Do have one example with short leaf shaped like this on a J code San Jose 68 but can't be sure its original and the picture does not show the stamping
I wish I had a better pic, that was all I was able to get from the seller so far. Depending what shape they are in will determine if I will buy them. Not sure how important the paint stamp is on top. I am looking to have leaf springs that look fresh and restored like the rest of the car. So I can buy these NOS units, or buy the other used set, or just buy the correct bottom spring. Then either rebuild mine or use a brand new set with the correct stamped bottom spring. Just trying to make the best choice and spend the money wisely and get the best result.
Thanks for all your help it is greatly appreciated
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......................Not sure how important the paint stamp is on top. I am looking to have leaf springs that look fresh and restored like the rest of the car. ............
If your referring to the stenciled part number applied to service replacements you going to remove it anyway during the restoration of the springs. So IMHO makes no difference
Have you confirmed that the -AT application is correct for your specific car and options?
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If your referring to the stenciled part number applied to service replacements you going to remove it anyway during the restoration of the springs. So IMHO makes no difference
Have you confirmed that the -AT application is correct for your specific car and options?
No I am note sure how to determine what part number would be correct for my application. The bottom original springs I can buy are AS stamps
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No I am note sure how to determine what part number would be correct for my application. The bottom original springs I can buy are AS stamps
Sorry - the ones in the picture you posted as a AT so I must have misunderstood
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Sorry - the ones in the picture you posted as a AT so I must have misunderstood
Sorry Jeff. The photo I just posted are AT stamps and they are the NOS bottom springs. The AS stamp are from the used complete set
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As mentioned earlier service replacements/later NOS will often be stamped differently than factory - Example below
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-301019161931.jpeg)
Hi Jeff. Just checking to see if these leaf springs could be original or NOS. I have not seen this type of stamp before.
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Hi Jeff. Just checking to see if these leaf springs could be original or NOS. I have not seen this type of stamp before.
Don't recall ever seeing one stamped like that - horizontal with the leaf, no date and no Ford oval even on a replacement.
Doesn't look like what was used in 68 at San Jose typically
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Don't recall ever seeing one stamped like that - horizontal with the leaf, no date and no Ford oval even on a replacement.
Doesn't look like what was used in 68 at San Jose typically
Thats what I thought. Seems odd that it has the part number stamped on it and in that configuration
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Many - if their originals are rust pitted or just worn out - choose to purchase reproduction and swap or find a decent original short leaf with all the original markings. Reproductions may need to be disassembled and finished correctly and with the original style of clamps depending on your application - year and plant
Then home that the car will sit correctly one installed
Hi Jeff Here is a leaf spring update. I found a set of very rusty leaf springs today. They do appear to be original and correct for my car. I am just in the process of taking them apart and media blasting them to determine I they are usable or not.
First photo shows the set next to the springs that came on my car when I purchased it. They are very rough, but hopefully the can be restored. The price was right, as in free.
The next photo shows the remnants of the original paint daubs, which I assume is correct.
The next photos shows a bit of a science experiment on the bottom leaf that appears to be correct for my car. Can you confirm if the stamp inmates that it could be a good stamp for my car. I think the part number is correct. Not sure about the other numbers. I left the bottom part of the spring alone to show the paint markings clearly. The middle part was just dry media blasted as I wanted to get a good look at the part number. The top part of the leaf i sanded slightly to see what it m right look like if I wanted to try getting rid of some of the pitting for the exposed areas. So far I like what I see and may proceed further with the experiment and work on all of the leafs to see if I can make these very rough springs suitable. FGYI the springs ar not sagging at all. All I am pretty sure that I can salvage all of the original hardware, clamps, rubbers and pads. I have worked on the parts yet, but I am confident I can save them
The last photo is just a comparison showing the graphite vs Eastwood Zinc phosphate paint. Not sure how I will finish them if I can save them I prefer to use actual phosphate. I have no bluing experience, but prefer the most original look possible.
Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.
Not sure why it is turning all my photos sideways
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I used the gel gun blue on my springs as well. I really like how they turned out. Again, media blast, red 3M scuff pad soaked in the stuff, wipe dry. If you have any pits the gun blue stays in the pits and takes on a strange color. Stainless brush to the rescue.
After a few days Boeshield and assemble.
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I used the gel gun blue on my springs as well. I really like how they turned out. Again, media blast, red 3M scuff pad soaked in the stuff, wipe dry. If you have any pits the gun blue stays in the pits and takes on a strange color. Stainless brush to the rescue.
After a few days Boeshield and assemble.
Wow they look great. I am going to have to look into the gun blue as I have never heard of it before. I like how dark the springs look and they best part they don't look painted.
Thanks for the info Bill appreciate it
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Wow they look great. I am going to have to look into the gun blue as I have never heard of it before. I like how dark the springs look and they best part they don't look painted.
Thanks for the info Bill appreciate it
Discovered the gun blue repair fluid years ago (early 90's) and have posted about it many times. Have seen the recommendation repeated again and again on forums for other makes. There are some similar products like Insta black and darkening fluid that are similar and available elsewhere. The application and tones can differ depending on how you apply *sipped/brushed on verses applying with steel wool) or what you do (burnish, steel wool or other steps/choices that following the coloring.
Would suggest looking at a number of "natural finish" threads and the Natural Finish article in the Library
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Discovered the gun blue repair fluid years ago (early 90's) and have posted about it many times. Have seen the recommendation repeated again and again on forums for other makes. There are some similar products like Insta black and darkening fluid that are similar and available elsewhere. The application and tones can differ depending on how you apply *sipped/brushed on verses applying with steel wool) or what you do (burnish, steel wool or other steps/choices that following the coloring.
Would suggest looking at a number of "natural finish" threads and the Natural Finish article in the Library
Hi Jeff my bad. My post should have read "Gun Bluing Gel". FYI I have tried some traditional gun bluing with minimal success. The last part I used Gun Bluing on was a drag link and it was a lot of work. It was series of repititiuos steps involving hi temperature water, gun bluing application and constant heat with steel wool rub downs. The result was pretty good in the end but took a lot of experimenting to get close to a result we were happy with. With leaf springs and coli springs it will be even more work I would imagine. I think I may experiment with some other procedures that are less labour intensive and see if they yield a good result. I have a bottle of the Gun Bluing Gel and will give it a go on smaller part to see how I make out.
Her goes nothing...
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Hi Jeff my bad. My post should have read "Gun Bluing Gel". FYI I have tried some traditional gun bluing with minimal success. The last part I used Gun Bluing on was a drag link and it was a lot of work. It was series of repetitious steps involving hi temperature water, gun bluing application and constant heat with steel wool rub downs. The result was pretty good in the end but took a lot of experimenting to get close to a result we were happy with. With leaf springs and coil springs it will be even more work I would imagine. I think I may experiment with some other procedures that are less labour intensive and see if they yield a good result. I have a bottle of the Gun Bluing Gel and will give it a go on smaller part to see how I make out.
Yes you don't want to do the gun bluing like what is done on guns but use the gun bluing repair fluid (product bottle shown in the article and thread) Two very different produces and processes - no heat soak in liquid needed. Product has gotten a bit harder to purchase locally since the meth heads figured out a way to incorporate it in the "cook" :(
Have always used the liquid rather than gel since I only need it on the surface for a second or slightly more - if applying it straight and not using the steel wool method that produces a different final look. The straight rag, dip or brush method will cause an instantaneous reaction. Only heat I use is just before I oil the item (once the finish is where I want and I've returned the machined surfaces if the part has any, to burn any moisture out and open the metal to let the oil in - somewhat related to how the part was oil quenched when it was originally made. Most of this is covered in the locations mentioned. Product can be used to reproduce a phosphate look on little parts (up to about front shock mounts if needed) if you need to in a pinch or find that you phosphated all but one bolt (for example) and you just need one more done and don't want to heat up a small cup of phosphate solution in the microwave and do it that way
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Yes you don't want to do the gun bluing like what is done on guns but use the gun bluing repair fluid (product bottle shown in the article and thread) Two very different produces and processes - no heat soak in liquid needed. Product has gotten a bit harder to purchase locally since the meth heads figured out a way to incorporate it in the "cook" :(
Have always used the liquid rather than gel since I only need it on the surface for a second or slightly more - if applying it straight and not using the steel wool method that produces a different final look. The straight rag, dip or brush method will cause an instantaneous reaction. Only heat I use is just before I oil the item (once the finish is where I want and I've returned the machined surfaces if the part has any, to burn any moisture out and open the metal to let the oil in - somewhat related to how the part was oil quenched when it was originally made. Most of this is covered in the locations mentioned. Product can be used to reproduce a phosphate look on little parts (up to about front shock mounts if needed) if you need to in a pinch or find that you phosphated all but one bolt (for example) and you just need one more done and don't want to heat up a small cup of phosphate solution in the microwave and do it that way
Thanks Jeff I will try it out and see how it works for me and hopefully I get a good result
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Given your assemblyline look direction I wouldn't waste your time unless the parts you are restoring are the confirmed assemblyline type or if assembly line looking type are in good enough condition to have a reasonable unpitted appearance once plated. If too pitted once restored your other alternative is to use bodywork techniques to diminish the pitted look on the leafs and then paint a faux finish like dark gray heat treated spring steel. I have seen some on show cars that are very pitted and stand out because they look terrible on a otherwise restored car. Just my opinion others may have a different one.
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Given your assemblyline look direction I wouldn't waste your time unless the parts you are restoring are the confirmed assemblyline type or if assembly line looking type are in good enough condition to have a reasonable unpitted appearance once plated. If too pitted once restored your other alternative is to use bodywork techniques to diminish the pitted look on the leafs and then paint a faux finish like dark gray heat treated spring steel. I have seen some on show cars that are very pitted and stand out because they look terrible on a otherwise restored car. Just my opinion others may have a different one.
That is good info Bob. Once they are stripped I will have a better idea, but they will be pitted for sure to some degree. I guess then I will have to decide if I want to go through the effort to try to make them look better or just anti-up and buy a correct set that are in good shape that are not worn out. The idea of using faux finish paint is an option, but in a perfect work I would have a set of nice springs that I can treat instead of paint
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Well I finally got the old rusty leaf springs blasted today. They came off a friends 50,000 mile GT 390 Fastback survivor. The car is original paint. Perhaps he replaced the leaf springs as he thought they were too rusty. Anyway He gave them to me and now they are stripped. After media blasting them you can see what kind of shape they are in. If they were being painted I don't think there would be any issuing these springs. I would simply use high build primer and sand them and paint them with a suitable paint that would look as close to bare metal as possible.
However I was hoping that I would be able to run bare metal springs. The only way I can think of to do this would be to sand the pitting flat for a nice finish. The question is, is this is a wise investment of time and energy or run aftermarket springs instead. I have a set of aftermarket springs that came on my car, but they look noting like original and I would like as close top original as possible.
Also just curious about the sleeve inside the large back eye. I am assuming that it should be pressed out as well. I was not aware of this sleeve being used on original leaf springs.
Let me know what you think. Open to all comments and advice as always
Thanks
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Well I finally got the old rusty leaf springs blasted today. They came off a friends 50,000 mile GT 390 Fastback survivor. The car is original paint. Perhaps he replaced the leaf springs as he thought they were too rusty. Anyway He gave them to me and now they are stripped. After media blasting them you can see what kind of shape they are in. If they were being painted I don't think there would be any issuing these springs. I would simply use high build primer and sand them and paint them with a suitable paint that would look as close to bare metal as possible.
However I was hoping that I would be able to run bare metal springs. The only way I can think of to do this would be to sand the pitting flat for a nice finish. The question is, is this is a wise investment of time and energy or run aftermarket springs instead. I have a set of aftermarket springs that came on my car, but they look noting like original and I would like as close top original as possible.
Also just curious about the sleeve inside the large back eye. I am assuming that it should be pressed out as well. I was not aware of this sleeve being used on original leaf springs.
Let me know what you think. Open to all comments and advice as always
Thanks
Yes that was in a original set along with the rubber insides . The rubber bushing was inside the sleeve at one time. It was all one piece. You press them in or out if replacing. Sometimes people will burn the rubber out to facilitate removal. If you are wanting to run bare steel leafs then buy a set of the ones Virginia Classic Mustang has sold thousands of for years that look very close to original and substitute the bottom leaf of the rusty set. You may have to do some body work on it so that it is comparable to the new leafs. Unfortunately the set from Virginia comes painted black like so many other after market sets. You will have to disassemble and strip.
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Yes that was in a original set along with the rubber insides . The rubber bushing was inside the sleeve at one time. It was all one piece. You press them in or out if replacing. Sometimes people will burn the rubber out to facilitate removal. If you are wanting to run bare steel leafs then buy a set of the ones Virginia Classic Mustang has sold thousands of for years that look very close to original and substitute the bottom leaf of the rusty set. You may have to do some body work on it so that it is comparable to the new leafs. Unfortunately the set from Virginia comes painted black like so many other after market sets. You will have to disassemble and strip.
Thanks Bob I went to the website but it does not show a very good photo. What parts of these leafs are not like the original or what differences should I be aware of
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Thanks Bob I went to the website but it does not show a very good photo. What parts of these leafs are not like the original or what differences should I be aware of
The bottom plate has squared off ends instead of rounded like the rest of the leafs in the set. You can grind them round to match or use the bottom leaf of the old set as discussed.
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The bottom plate has squared off ends instead of rounded like the rest of the leafs in the set. You can grind them round to match or use the bottom leaf of the old set as discussed.
Ok thanks. Odd that just the bottom leaf is squared off and the other leafs are rounded. The original leafs looks like they were cut by hand as they are quite rough and uncemetrical
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The bottom plate has squared off ends instead of rounded like the rest of the leafs in the set. You can grind them round to match or use the bottom leaf of the old set as discussed.
The other option I have considered is using the top leaf that is in great shape that came on my car. I will experiment with some of the various processes suggested and see if any look like a reasonable solution. If not back to the drawing board and I will just order up a set of leafs from Virgina Classic Mustang and call it a day. Regardless I do know that I am using the bottom leaf and need to see how well I can get that to look and if painting is my only option or not. That will provide the answer I need indeed
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Ok thanks. Odd that just the bottom leaf is squared off and the other leafs are rounded. The original leafs looks like they were cut by hand as they are quite rough and uncemetrical
Sorry can't recall - did we ever confirm that your rear leaf springs were original or could be to your car and application?
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Sorry can't recall - did we ever confirm that your rear leaf springs were original or could be to your car and application?
Hi Jeff. The leaf springs that came in my car were not original units, they we replaced at some point, but I figured that it would be hard to tell the top springs apart, at least I didn't see any major differences between the ones that came on my car and the 50,000 mile original springs from my buddy's car. The top leafs (all the leafs) that came in my car are in perfect shape compared to the original ones from my buddies car. Perhaps I was wrong in assuming I could match the 2 sets together. I just figured that if I was to order a set of aftermarket ones and I have the bottom spring from the 50,000 mile car and the top spring from my car, that I would be ordering a set of reproduction springs for just 2 leafs. Perhaps I am over thinking this. I just want to get some springs on my car that look right, fit right that I will be happy with. It is shame that the original springs are so pitted, but what can I do other than sand the pits out.
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I managed to clean up the correct bottom leaf as best I could without sanding away the part number. I don't think they will look that great if I just treat them as they still have some pitting. The other option is to use high build primer and sand the entire original set. I will experiment with the lower spring and see how it looks. I will try the graphite and see if it looks good as I found that was the best option when I tested some various finishes previously. If that does not work I will order a new set of springs from Virginia Classic Mustangs and call it a day
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IMO there should be some texture - just no rust pitting - from the heating and quenching process. You can often see, for lack of a better term, "plates" - flat sections with rough outlines on many of the surfaces. Just don't over do it or they might come out looking like they were dipped in plastic or plastic coated like some exterior paint jobs ::)
Good luck with the attempt - this is when we find out what can work and what doesn't. Just part of the learning process so thanks for sharing
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IMO there should be some texture - just no rust pitting - from the heating and quenching process. You can often see, for lack of a better term, "plates" - flat sections with rough outlines on many of the surfaces. Just don't over do it or they might come out looking like they were dipped in plastic or plastic coated like some exterior paint jobs ::)
Good luck with the attempt - this is when we find out what can work and what doesn't. Just part of the learning process so thanks for sharing
Agreed thanks Jeff. I plan on doing a very rough dry spray with the graphite after the primer. May try burnishing it as well since it is not a paint product. Standby for results. Worse case scenario, I will go with Plan B. Which in some cases could actually be Plan A lol!
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IMO there should be some texture - just no rust pitting - from the heating and quenching process. You can often see, for lack of a better term, "plates" - flat sections with rough outlines on many of the surfaces. Just don't over do it or they might come out looking like they were dipped in plastic or plastic coated like some exterior paint jobs ::)
Good luck with the attempt - this is when we find out what can work and what doesn't. Just part of the learning process so thanks for sharing
Hi Jeff. After cleaning up on of the bottom leafs I coated in with graphite and burnished it as well. It has a natural look to it. However what I have learned is that the graphite does not hide anything pitting like a paint product would. So I am going to attempt to paint the pitted springs and see what happens. I will try the Eastwood Phosphate rattle can paint after that and see how they look. If I am not happy with the result I will order a new set of leafs (painted of course) then disassemble them, strip them and coat them with the graphite and burnish them.
The first photo shows a bare metal leaf on the left beside the graphite leaf on the right. The next photo shows the Eastwood phosphate painted leaf on the right next to the graphite leaf on the left
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The first photo shows a bare metal leaf on the left beside the graphite leaf on the right. The next photo shows the Eastwood phosphate painted leaf on the right next to the graphite leaf on the left
Must be the lighting as on my screen there does not appear to be much difference and surely not dark like a heat treated quench part but as mentioned likely the lighting and the digital camera settings as well as other things.
One example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161329-7886155.jpeg)
And another. Has been worked a little more on the right hand side of the picture
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161327-78841181.jpeg)
Not looking for an exact tone but one in a range that produces a noticeable contrast with the shackles, spring clamps and other bare steel parts in the same area
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Must be the lighting as on my screen there does not appear to be much difference and surely not dark like a heat treated quench part but as mentioned likely the lighting and the digital camera settings as well as other things.
One example
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161329-7886155.jpeg)
And another. Has been worked a little more on the right hand side of the picture
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/7/6-110817161327-78841181.jpeg)
Not looking for an exact tone but one in a range that produces a noticeable contrast with the shackles, spring clamps and other bare steel parts in the same area
Thanks Jeff. Yes it is the lighting. It is washing it out. I will try to take a better photo with less light. My understanding is that the shackles are phospated, the shock plates are a bare metal finish, the u bolt nuts are red dichromate, and the u bolts phosphate. I am leaning towards phophating the leafs at this point. I will most likely paint the badly pitted original leafs since I have come this far and try phosphating the smaller leafs to see how they turn out. Also leaning towards ordering a new set of leafs from Virginia Classic Mustang and stripping them and using which ever process ends up looking the most like the original heat treated quench approach. I will use the correct stamped original lower leaf and the new set combined. Hopefully the ride height with the new springs will be same as what I had previously
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..... My understanding is that the shackles are phospated, the shock plates are a bare metal finish, ................
I've not seen them phosphated originally.
To reproduce the original look some are phosphating then then tumbling or further dressing them to get to the right look. Guess we should be careful when describing what they should look like and how we're "faking" or reproducing the look. Might result in confusion or a non-correct final look. Same goes with many other parts where they were originally bare steel but the current practices of reproducing the look uses phosphating as one of the steps
Others opinions may differ
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I've not seen them phosphated originally.
To reproduce the original look some are phosphating then then tumbling or further dressing them to get to the right look. Guess we should be careful when describing what they should look like and how we're "faking" or reproducing the look. Might result in confusion or a non-correct final look. Same goes with many other parts where they were originally bare steel but the current practices of reproducing the look uses phosphating as one of the steps
Others opinions may differ
Thanks Jeff. So what in your opinion would yield the correct look. Gun bluing for example. One thing I do find odd is that I am still able to order treated and unpainted leafs springs for other brands, but for some reason I have not been able to find leaf springs other than painted for my car. I am not sure what process the spring manufacturers are currently using to treat their respective springs, but it does have a dark phosphate look to it, which could be one of many different processes I would imagine. I am hoping that which ever process I use will offer some level of rust prevention as I live in a damp rainforest. I can literally see parts flash rust before my eyes. On the rear brake drums for example, I dry media blasted them and then used the vapour blasted to remove the dull flat texture and return it closer to what it would have been like when manufactured and literally within seconds you can see flash rusting occur due to the humidity in the air. So far phosphating has worked well for me in most applications as gave several other products for other parts and finishes. The only gun bluing I have used has been an involved process using heat and multiple applications. my understanding is that the heat draws the gun bluing into the pours of the metal and not only seals it, but also allows the product to go below the surface into the metal. Then I generally burnish with steel wool and Boeshield for rust prevention
Any advice would be greatly welcomed as alway
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I've not seen them phosphated originally.
To reproduce the original look some are phosphating then then tumbling or further dressing them to get to the right look. Guess we should be careful when describing what they should look like and how we're "faking" or reproducing the look. Might result in confusion or a non-correct final look. Same goes with many other parts where they were originally bare steel but the current practices of reproducing the look uses phosphating as one of the steps
Others opinions may differ
Hi Jeff here is a better photo I hope of the of the leaf spring Phosphate paint vs Graphite
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I found another set of local leaf springs. They have a different code/stamp, not sure if I am decoding the date correctly, but it looks like the Oct 27 and my car was built the 23rd week. I am not sure what AR stands for, or which plant is OE7. So far these new springs appear to be in better shape than the previous set of leafs I got from the same seller. I will hav a better idea once I strip the paint.
The other set I have are Nov 26, same plant AS
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I found another set of local leaf springs. They have a different code/stamp, not sure if I am decoding the date correctly, but it looks like the Oct 27 and my car was built the 23rd week. I am not sure what AR stands for, or which plant is OE7. So far these new springs appear to be in better shape than the previous set of leafs I got from the same seller. I will hav a better idea once I strip the paint.
The other set I have are Nov 26, same plant AS
AR marked springs are for competition suspension. They are highly sort after.
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AR marked springs are for competition suspension. They are highly sort after.
Really? Very interesting. What car would have received those springs. Would they have a different spring rating than the AS for example.
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Comp suspension cars that used the AR springs include some 1968 Shelbys
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Comp suspension cars that used the AR springs include some 1968 Shelbys
Thanks. I was told that they came off a 68 Shelby. I think that the previous owner installed new aftermarket 1 inch lowered springs. Hopefully they clean up nice. I just have to check the arch and make sure that are not sagging
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Quick leaf Spring update. So I have be diligently searching locally for some nice original used leaf springs and I have acquired a few new sets. I will be media blasting them all to see if any other them are worthy of restoration. If not I will just order a set of repos from Virginia Classic Mustang and call it day. Then strip and treat and use a donor lower lear from one of these sets. My question is all of the sets of leaf spring have roughly the same arc except the AR springs. Should I assume that if they all have the same arc as the ones I pulled out of my car that they will have give me the same ride height. I am concerned if the old springs will sag and if there is a way to determine this or would they already be sagging if that was the case. I have blown all of the sets of springs apart will start the chore of cleaning them up soon.
Also is there any value in restoring these original springs and finishing with a suitable faux finish to replicate the correct natural finish as close as possible. Just trying to determine if I should dedicate any time to the old springs. I am not sure how desirable they might be. I would have 2-3 sets for sale with new pads and clamps etc. So far leaning towards the Eastwood Phosphate rattle can product. I didn't some test sprays and it looked pretty close to a natural finish. Well as nice as can be expected compared to everything else I have tried so far.
Thanks
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The ARs are also used on 67 Shelby Comp Suspensions. My 67 has the AR springs.
The SAAC Forum has more than one guy looking for a set of those lower leafs.
Real hard to find.
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The ARs are also used on 67 Shelby Comp Suspensions. My 67 has the AR springs.
The SAAC Forum has more than one guy looking for a set of those lower leafs.
Real hard to find.
Thanks Bill appreciate it
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Here are the non AR springs. Assuming that the AS code is correct for my car. The set on the left is the roller set for my car. The middle set needs to be painted, Set of right will get blasted and assessed, but have decided to order a new set from Virginai Classic Mustang to be safe. Just a question regarding the cups. There is a difference between the cups on both sets of springs. Is this common. Very noticeable on the bottom leafs. Also the stamp on the leafs on the right have the stamp in the vertical orientation compared to horizontal on the middle set.
I will use the best stamp on the bottom spring with the new springs. So far I think the set of the left has the best stamp and less pitting than the centre set
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Here are the non AR springs. Assuming that the AS code is correct for my car. The set on the left is the roller set for my car. The middle set needs to be painted, Set of right will get blasted and assessed, but have decided to order a new set from Virginai Classic Mustang to be safe. Just a question regarding the cups. There is a difference between the cups on both sets of springs. Is this common. Very noticeable on the bottom leafs. Also the stamp on the leafs on the right have the stamp in the vertical orientation compared to horizontal on the middle set.
Yes as posted in the paint mark thread the AS is likely the correct rear springs for your specific application
There were multiple different design (dimple, pointed dimple and no dimple) found on the short leaf on cars built at San Jose during 68 production. This may have been the results of multiple suppliers/providers who may have supplied one specific rear spring or more to San Jose at that time. On some springs we find one of these physical details (dimple for example) while different springs on cars built at the same time have a different design.
In general most of the springs I've seen originally on 68 San Jose cars lacked any dimple but there are other applications where they are present
A couple of examples of the dimple and no dimple on 68 San Jose examples as well as the orientation of the stamping normally found. Not to say one of the length-wise stamping is never found. Have never cross referenced the dimple style with the style/orientation of the stamping a logical task
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-240220171842.jpeg)
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Yes as posted in the paint mark thread the AS is likely the correct rear springs for your specific application
There were multiple different design (dimple, pointed dimple and no dimple) found on the short leaf on cars built at San Jose during 68 production. This may have been the results of multiple suppliers/providers who may have supplied one specific rear spring or more to San Jose at that time. On some springs we find one of these physical details (dimple for example) while different springs on cars built at the same time have a different design.
In general most of the springs I've seen originally on 68 San Jose cars lacked any dimple but there are other applications where they are present
A couple of examples of the dimple and no dimple on 68 San Jose examples as well as the orientation of the stamping normally found. Not to say one of the length-wise stamping is never found. Have never cross referenced the dimple style with the style/orientation of the stamping a logical task
Great thanks Jeff I will most likey go with that spring orientation if I can clean them up to look good enough. Always nice to have a nice crisp stamp. What about date code. Should I be concerned with that at this point or mainly just the correct t application.
Can you explain the dimple?
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So after shopping around there look to be 3 options that I have found for aftermarket leaf springs. Scott Drake (Photo 1&2), Virgina Classic Mustangs (Photo 3&4) and Eaton (No photo). Any opinions or advice with any of the 3 vendor springs.
Concerns would be ride height and spring end detail/shape
Thanks
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Great thanks Jeff I will most likey go with that spring orientation if I can clean them up to look good enough. Always nice to have a nice crisp stamp. What about date code. Should I be concerned with that at this point or mainly just the correct t application.
Looks like both are 330 EC7 Suggesting the 330th day of the year 1967
Can you explain the dimple?
Just a term chosen for the small raised dot (much smaller than the cup depression in the longer leaves that held plastic inserts/insulators) found on some short leaves
To left shows one such feature at the rear (engineering and date end) on that example while the lower right was formed with the feature at the front end/opposite of the short leaf with the engineering number and date
(http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/gallery/13/6-260220182708.jpeg)
On other examples both ends are flat with no "raised dimple" as on a car I looked at yesterday
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Looks like both are 330 EC7 Suggesting the 330th day of the year 1967
Just a term chosen for the small raised dot (much smaller than the cup depression in the longer leaves that held plastic inserts/insulators) found on some short leaves
To left shows one such feature at the rear (engineering and date end) on that example while the lower right was formed with the feature at the front end/opposite of the short leaf with the engineering number and date
On other examples both ends are flat with no "raised dimple" as on a car I looked at yesterday
Great thanks Jeff appreciate it
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Looks like both are 330 EC7 Suggesting the 330th day of the year 1967
To left shows one such feature at the rear (engineering and date end) on that example while the lower right was formed with the feature at the front end/opposite of the short leaf with the engineering number and date
Hi Jeff which leaf would be best suited for my car discounting the AR spring of course. The one on the right with the horizontal stamp does not appear to have a date code, unless the date code is 0548, 54th day of 1968. Do you think that spring could have come on a San Jose car
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Just checking to see what the correct finish should be on the leaf springs clamps. I know that the leafs should be treated (I plan to phosphate them) natural steel, and the clamps that I have are new aftermarket (they look fairly correct) and are bare metal. Should they be installed bare natural metal or treated like the leaf springs.
Thanks
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Just checking to see what the correct finish should be on the leaf springs clamps. I know that the leafs should be treated (I plan to phosphate them) natural steel, and the clamps that I have are new aftermarket (they look fairly correct) and are bare metal. Should they be installed bare natural metal or treated like the leaf springs.
Thanks
They are bare metal from the originally spring mfg back in the day with a coating of cosmoline (rust inhibitor) over the leafs and clamps typically . The only metal treatment I would suggest is one of the good metal protector products like T9 etc. that goes on relatively clear.
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They are bare metal from the originally spring mfg back in the day with a coating of cosmoline (rust inhibitor) over the leafs and clamps typically . The only metal treatment I would suggest is one of the good metal protector products like T9 etc. that goes on relatively clear.
Ok thanks Bob. On a new set I would chemical strip to give the correct bare metal finish treated with T9. On original leafs especially if pitted painting would be the only option I assume as T9 on pitted springs especially after media blasting would not look correct at all. For some reason I thought that the original springs were phosphate and oil. Glad I didn't phosphate them yet!
I am actually surprised to see so many guys painting suspension parts. I figured most would want the correct factory look. Obviously painted springs would be a better form of protection and rust prevention. I have seen several different finishes being used. I guess for a driver/trailer car this would be an acceptable practice
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Ok thanks Bob. Would that give the correct finish after media blasting. That would be the option for an original set with rust etc. On a new set I would chemical strip to give the correct bare metal finish treated with T9. I guess I answered my own question regarding the original leafs especially if pitted, that painting would be the only option ad T9 on pitted springs especially after media blasting would not look correct at all. For some reason I thought that the original springs were phosphate and oil. Glad I didn't phosphate them yet!
Rust inhibitor will not effect the look in a positive way after media blasting. New clamps should not need blasting or further appearance help . A new or used clamp that has been blasted to get rust or paint off would need to be tumbled to bring it back to a more proper look. The leafs should be coated with which ever rust inhibitor used on regardless of if painted or not. The springs were a typical spring steel dark blue gray finish which looks so dark that it is confused by many as ether black painted or phosphate .
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Rust inhibitor will not effect the look in a positive way after media blasting. New clamps should not need blasting or further appearance help . A new or used clamp that has been blasted to get rust or paint off would need to be tumbled to bring it back to a more proper look. The leafs should be coated with which ever rust inhibitor used on regardless of if painted or not. The springs were a typical spring steel dark blue gray finish which looks so dark that it is confused by many as ether black painted or phosphate .
Thanks Bob understood. Hopefully the chemical strip of whatever paint the manufacturer uses will yield a close to original look, that can then be sprayed with T9. Since I have a few sets of used original leafs I may paint a set to see what they look like. Perhaps someone who is building a driver will be interested in an original set. If that is the case I may paint up a few sets if they turn out ok.
Now all I need is a nice set of shock plates and I am all set on the rear suspension. So far no luck on sourcing a nice set! Most parts up here are always rusted and pitted, which can be restored when being painted to some degree of success, but parts that remain bare metal are harder to find in good condition. I have tried to restore some parts and I am less than pleased with the result. Like the leaf springs I will probably paint them and see if anyone wants them, since I have so much time into these parts as it is, with evaporust bath, then media blasting, grinding, vapour blasting and then the final tumbling process,
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I would buy the Scott Drake ones and strip off the plating. That yields a new pit free bare metal finish.
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I would buy the Scott Drake ones and strip off the plating. That yields a new pit free bare metal finish.
Thanks Marty. By plating do you mean paint? My understanding is that they are painted black. FYI I have been researching various manufacturers/suppliers trying to find the closest to original springs, not concerned with the bottom leaf of course. So far here is the short list: If anyone has any experience with any of these springs please feel free to chime in. I do plan to strip them and refinish in bare metal.
Scott Drake (Photo 1-4)
Virgina Classic Mustangs (5-8)
JR Springs (9-12)
Eaton (No Photo)
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Sorry I was not clear, I was talking about the spring plates. They come zinc plated.
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Sorry I was not clear, I was talking about the spring plates. They come zinc plated.
Yes I believe that most of the aftermarket shock plates are zinc plated. NPD has the zinc plated ones and reasonable priced. I do prefer originals, but If I can't find a set of nice originals I will order some up and media blast them, then tumble etc. I also have been looking for some rear leaf shackles and no luck finding any originals yet, so I have already ordered some from NPD and will blast and tumble them to look correct
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Just curious if anyone has seen this before. I was considering grinding down the welds and doing a clean blend, but I am not sure that the angle is correct on the ears that have been welded. Also note that I don't think this was as much a repair as it was a modification as the new ears are thicker than the original metal.
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Sorry I was not clear, I was talking about the spring plates. They come zinc plated.
Hi Marty. Have you blasted zinc plating before. I have only done it once and not sure how it turned out. Here is the NDP zinc plated shackle as well as a shackle with the wrong bolt configuration that I media blasted. How do you think it looks. Would this be an acceptable finish
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Yes I believe that most of the aftermarket shock plates are zinc plated. NPD has the zinc plated ones and reasonable priced. I do prefer originals, but If I can't find a set of nice originals I will order some up and media blast them, then tumble etc. I also have been looking for some rear leaf shackles and no luck finding any originals yet, so I have already ordered some from NPD and will blast and tumble them to look correct
I take the zinc off by submerging in a muriatic acid bath . Three to four minutes and the zinc is gone. Then I put them in the tumbler. Less labor and better finish IMHO.
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Just curious if anyone has seen this before. I was considering grinding down the welds and doing a clean blend, but I am not sure that the angle is correct on the ears that have been welded. Also note that I don't think this was as much a repair as it was a modification as the new ears are thicker than the original metal.
Those are not worth any time spent on them given the modification.
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Just curious if anyone has seen this before. I was considering grinding down the welds and doing a clean blend, but I am not sure that the angle is correct on the ears that have been welded. Also note that I don't think this was as much a repair as it was a modification as the new ears are thicker than the original metal.
No - Too easy to find others typically rather than go through all that work. I guess for everyone else except for the guy that made those ::)
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Those are not worth any time spent on them given the modification.
Thanks Bob. I can ad them to the reject pile that is constantly growing
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No - Too easy to find others typically rather than go through all that work. I guess for everyone else except for the guy that made those ::)
Yes the guy who made those did a bunch of welding and reinforcement on the car. He also added washers to the floor shock mounts, and welded in traction bar hardware etc
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That type of reinforcement was necessary to delay failure of the parts when using air shocks. Very common on these cars back in the day. Notice I said delay rather than prevent.
Yes the guy who made those did a bunch of welding and reinforcement on the car. He also added washers to the floor shock mounts, and welded in traction bar hardware etc
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That type of reinforcement was necessary to delay failure of the parts when using air shocks. Very common on these cars back in the day. Notice I said delay rather than prevent.
Yes good point Royce. I had air shocks on my cars back in the day. It was standard procedure. Air shocks, slotted mags or Cragers, headers, aluminum intake, Access ignition etc were immediate mods made on the purchase of any car.
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So far here is the short list: If anyone has any experience with any of these springs please feel free to chime in. I do plan to strip them and refinish in bare metal.
Scott Drake (Photo 1-4)
Virgina Classic Mustangs (5-8)
JR Springs (9-12)
Eaton (No Photo)
I ordered a set of the springs from VCM and they don't look right at all. Ends are flared from stamping? Pictures are attached for reference. Looking for pictures of the Eaton springs if anyone has any.
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Tony[/img]
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I ordered a set of the springs from VCM and they don't look right at all. Ends are flared from stamping? Pictures are attached for reference. Looking for pictures of the Eaton springs if anyone has any.
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Tony[/img]
Yikes! I ended up just restoring the originals. I hope they don't sag. They look great, but I ended up painting them
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I wish I could restore mine. They are currently painted but appear to have heavy pitting under the paint.
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Tony
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I wish I could restore mine. They are currently painted but appear to have heavy pitting under the paint.
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Tony
I restored 3 sets. The ones in the photo had no pitting and I was hoping to not paint them, but decided to anyway. The other set I coated in graphite and the 3rd set were very badly pitted. I used high build primer on them and they look just as good as the set in the photos. However I am not sure of the body work will come out of the springs or not. Only one way to find out I guess. I was not able to find any springs that I was happy with how they looked. If I do find some I will order them up and strip the paint and see how they look. Good luck
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I ended up buying a set of the Eaton springs and am currently in the process of stripping them. They are much closer to originals than the VCM springs without the excessive flaring on the ends. I'm going to try bluing them to get closer to the darkened finish. Will post pictures if they come out right.
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Tony
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I ended up buying a set of the Eaton springs and am currently in the process of stripping them. They are much closer to originals than the VCM springs without the excessive flaring on the ends. I'm going to try bluing them to get closer to the darkened finish. Will post pictures if they come out right.
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Tony
Nice looking forward to see photos, to compare to original
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After Stripping the first one, I'm wondering if I even need to try and darken them by bluing. I've attached a picture for comment on whether it's close.
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Tony
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After Stripping the first one, I'm wondering if I even need to try and darken them by bluing. I've attached a picture for comment on whether it's close.
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Tony
They look pretty close as is but I would like to see them a little darker by bluing given they don't match the darker bottom plate. A closer between the bottom plate and Eaton leafs would be more ideal IMO.
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They look pretty close as is but I would like to see them a little darker by bluing given they don't match the darker bottom plate. A closer between the bottom plate and Eaton leafs would be more ideal IMO.
You're probably right...I'll give it a shot. Thanks Bob.
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Tony
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After Stripping the first one, I'm wondering if I even need to try and darken them by bluing. I've attached a picture for comment on whether it's close.
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Tony
They look great. You can also use graphite to darken them, but the graphite is a dark grey and not as black as the gun bluing I find. Did the leaves come with the bushings pre installed. Obviously you you swapped out your original bot tom leaf.
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They look great. You can also use graphite to darken them, but the graphite is a dark grey and not as black as the gun bluing I find. Did the leaves come with the bushings pre installed. Obviously you you swapped out your original bot tom leaf.
The springs did come with the bushings pre-installed. Have not tried graphite so will have to try a sample. The bottom plate on the Eaton spring is the only thing I really don't like about them. The ends are squared off and the dimple for the rebound clip (I assume that's what its there for) is missing. Picture attached. Most are probably going to replace the bottom plate anyway but it's odd that they left those details out.
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Tony